98' sport starting issues

[KD7000Guy]

Up until about 2 weeks ago, my sport has been running flawlessly this season (my first with this boat). Starting two weeks ago, my wife and I went out for a ski, the boat started right up. I jumped in the water and(never shut the boat off at this point) skied a few sets. My wife shut the boat off, I climbed in and after she was in ready to go, I went to start the boat and my dash came on but the boat wouldn't turn over. I also heard the clicking sound like you would hear if your battery doesn't have enough juice to turn over. Of course for the first time ever, we were the only boat on the lake, so I was forced to call the marina on the lake to have a mechanic come out. The guy that came out didn't like how my battery was hooked up and thought we should have a marine battery not a car battery. Reason being, there is a splitter connecting the motor and the amp to the positive and negative. The battery is 800cca. This mechanic said that he thought I had a power leak at the battery because of the extra components and the fact that it was very difficult to tighten everything down the way it was currently set up (this is how I bought the boat). He went over everything and tightened it up best he could. But it still wouldn't start. He went to the back and noticed the power connection to the solenoid was a little loose. He hand tightened it down (he didn't have the right size wrench to tighten it properly) and I was able to start the boat. Since then, I have tightened that connection to the solenoid and went back to the battery to see if I could tighten anything more. I did notice that the positive connection can be moved a little, but I cant get a wrench in that space to tighten it any further...its like the nut goes to far into the connection on the terminal? We went out to ski yesterday(the first time since the issue began) and the boat started, although a little sluggish...like there almost wasnt enough power. I skied, then we turned the boat off. When my wife got in to ski, the boat started right up. After she skied, we turned it off. We then started the boat again to move to another area of the lake to hang out. After that, the boat was off for about an hour. When we went to leave the boat wouldn't start, we could hear the clicking sound of a dead battery again. The only thing I could think was to try and tight that positive connection on the battery that i know was slightly loose. I was able to get a very slight turn on the connection. After a couple turns of the key the boat started ( a little sluggishly again).

Does this sound like a power leak? Would it better to have a marine battery that would have terminals for the motor itself and the amp? Or at least find a way to get all connections tightened down better? Could the solenoid be bad? I do hear my fuel pump come on also, so I would assume its functioning properly. Any other thoughts out there?

[DanielC]

First question. How old is your battery?

The battery cable terminals are a fairly soft lead alloy. They do stretch, and as they get old, they can get brittle and break. When the two ends of the terminal, that the bolt goes through touch, it does not matter how tight the bolt on the terminal is, the clamp does not make good connection to the battery post. This adds a slight amount of resistance to the connection between the battery post and terminal.

Engine electric starters draw a huge amount of current when they first engage, and start to turn the engine over. Once the engine is cranking, the current drops off a lot, but it is still quite high. (50 to 100 amps) This high current demand through the slight amount of resistance of a bad battery cable terminal drops the voltage available at the starter down below a level that needed to keep the starter solenoid engaged, it open up, and the current draw goes away, and the voltage at the starter goes back up, and the starter solenoid engages again, and the starter drags the voltage down again, and this cycle keeps repeating, causing the clicking noise.

A quick way to see if your battery terminals are going bad, is to feel them after you crank the engine. If they are warm, they are not making as good of a connection as they should.

Look at your battery terminal. Is it all the way down on the battery post, or is it up a little? you can get "Battery terminal spreaders" at an auto parts store. they look like a pair of pliers, with a tapered split post that fits into the battery terminal on the cable, and when you squeeze the handles, the split post opens up. This allows the cable end to go down further on the battery post, and the bolt in the terminal now clamps the terminal to the post. Of course you clean the battery post and the inside of the terminal bright and shiny before you but the terminal back on the battery.

On old cables, and with a 1998 Sport, yours are old, the terminal spreader can easily break the terminal. If you completely remove the bolt, and not just the nut, the terminal will spread easier. Do not spread it too far, it will break. Spread it a little, try it on the battery, and spread it a little again, if necessary.
Cleaning the battery post, and the cable terminal too much can remove enough metal that the cable terminal will not clamp the battery post even when it is all the way down on the battery post.

I am not a big fan of the "marine" battery cable to engine connection (wingnuts on a threaded post) This type of connection was OK when a big boat engine was a 35 HP Johnson outboard 2 stroke outboard. It is not really a good enough connection for a 351 V8 four stroke engine.
If you do get a marine battery, use the tapered posts for the engine to battery connection, and you can use the wingnut connection for the other accessories you added. Leave the stock in line fuse on the battery terminal bolt, however.

[KD7000Guy]

Thanks for your feedback Daniel,

The battery is new this spring and the terminals are like new. If I am hearing you correctly, you think the standard car battery is fine, however I may need some new connectors to the terminals and that it sounds like I am bleeding power from the battery? I am pretty sure the main connectors are all the way down on the terminals but I will double check. Also, when I turn the key, the volt meter is reading around 11-12 before I try and turn the engine over. After its running its 16.

[DanielC]

Are you reading from the dashboard volt meter, all the voltage numbers sound a little high.

If the voltage at the battery is really 16 volts, your battery is being overcharged. Check the water level in the battery to confirm. If the water level is low, that is confirmation that the battery was overcharged.

By "Marine" battery, I mean a battery with wingnut connections. Do not use these connections in the cranking circuit.

[DanielC]

Additional information about starting circuits.

[DanielC]

The picture of the Datsun engine is there because it is the same starting circuit as your boat. A battery, two heavy cables, one red, one black, a starter with a solenoid, and a switch to apply power to the small terminal on the solenoid.

You can quickly isolate problems with a voltmeter by checking for voltage drops.
If you touch the voltmeter leads to the center of a battery post, and the terminal clamped to it, and then crank the engine, you will measure a voltage difference between them. That is the voltage drop, for that connection. If the terminal is good, It might be a tenth of a volt. If this connection goes bad, it could read almost battery voltage.

Here is a site that explains voltage drops better than I can.
http://www.vernco.com/sparks/id606.htm

[KD7000Guy]

Thanks again Daniel...

I didnt have a chance to work on anything last night. I will check the battery again and maybe pull the boat out of the garage tonight and fire it up to verify Volts...assuming i can get it started.

What volt range should the boat be in when the key is turned so the dash comes on but the engine does not fire and what should the reading be when the motor is running?

[DanielC]

I like to see somewhere between 13.5 to 14.5 volts, at the battery, when it is fully charged, engine running, (supply water to the Raw water pump)
Battery voltage should stay above 10 volts when cranking.

[DanielC]

I just went out and checked the voltages on several things.
1947 Willys jeep, 6.36 volts. Four or five days since the last time ran. that would be 12.72 volts, if it had a 12 volt system.
My 1997 Ski Nautique, 12.49 Ran it yesterday. this is the second battery, replaced at least four years ago.
Hydrodyne twin rig, starboard engine, 12.79 volts, port engine 12.64 volts
The starboard engine has a new battery.
1974 Ford pickup 12.20 volts. Last ran on Sunday, I left the electric choke heater on the carb on. Need to start the truck today
1996 Ford Aerostar 12.66 volts. ran it last night
1970 Datsun pickup, 11.59 volts. last ran about three weeks ago. would not crank, put a battery charger on it. The battery in the Datsun pickup is an old one given to me, that spent four or five years in a moored 1998 Ski Nautique, that was occasionally ran down to dead.

All these voltages were taken with a Fluke digital meter. I have not had the meter checked against a standard, but I am pretty sure it is more accurate than the volt meter in the dashboard of my boat.

[KD7000Guy]

I ran home at lunch and took another look...the volt meter on the dash says about 12.5 prior to firing the motor, I wont know until after i have time to start it what its reading when running.

However, i did look closer at the connections to the battery. The splitter connection to the positive terminal had a crack in it and looks pretty beat up. The positive battery cable looks to have pulled out of the copper connector slightly and a couple of the copper "fibers" of the cable look to be broken.

The negative side looks a little better, although the ground connection looked a little beat up, some of the copper wire was fraying and the ground connector itself looked kinda bent and too big for the bolt it was connected to. The connector to the terminal was also slightly above the top of the terminal...I think you had said that can cause an issue? Also both terminals were cool to the touch.

Would any of the above issues cause a power leak?

With that said, I bought a new splitter connection for the positive end, a new copper connector for the battery cable and new ground connectors. After I fix those i will fire up the boat to test and get a reading of volts.

[DanielC]

Back to the Datsun pickup. I just started it, the battery went up to almost 13 volts in a very short time with a 6 amp charger. Although the voltage on the battery is apparently good, the battery does not have enough capacity to really take a good charge. It is a bad battery. It will start the Datsun, because the Datsun cranks very easily. I would not trust this battery in my boat.

Just because the gauge on the dashboard indicates 12 volts, you cannot assume the battery is good. The gauge could be wrong, the battery could not accept a full charge, like the old battery in my Datsun.

Read the link I posted above about voltage drops. If you have a voltage drop across a battery post to battery terminal connection, it is bad. You could also have a drop across the terminal to the cable connection, the cable to the terminal to the cable on the other end, the terminal to the post on the relay on the back of the engine, the cable that goes from that relay to the starter solenoid, the contacts in the solenoid, the connection from the solenoid to the starter, the starter connection to the engine block, the engine block to the negative battery cable, and back to the battery.

It is also possible the starter itself is bad, a bad starter will draw more current, and make any resistance from a bad connection anywhere in the starter circuit more of a problem.

[KD7000Guy]

The battery is only a couple months old...could it still go bad for some reason in that amount of time?

[DanielC]

It is possible that your battery is bad, slim possibility. If you have let the battery discharge, and it sat discharged for a while, and then you recharged it, it could be "not as new"

One test for the battery is to fully charge it, then put a high amp load on it, and see what the voltage drops down to.

The easy way to do this is to measure the voltage at the battery with an accurate volt meter, while the engine is cranking. If the voltage goes to less than 10 volts, be more suspicious of the battery.

[KD7000Guy]

I had my local (inboard) mechanic stop out before I took off for the holiday last Wednesday, I didn't have any more time to play with the boat, I had a bunch of people who were relying on me to take them skiing.... He did a once over and also believed I had a connection issue. Stupid me, I didn't check the main power cable going to the solenoid on the rear of the motor. For whatever reason, that cable was pretty loose too. I had only checked the power cable going to the solenoid on the driver side of the motor. I also cleaned up/ replaced a couple of connections on the battery. This has helped my starting a lot. However, after using the boat all weekend, I have noticed now the boat starts most of the time when the motor is cold and every time when the motor is warmed up. When starting cold, if it doesn't turn over right away, after another try or two, it will turn over. Any ideas on this?

[DealsGapCobra]

I am starting to question the starter solenoid. After, 12 years is may have some corrosion on the contacts and is not making good contact every time. I don't know what your system looks like but if you can, check the voltage from the input and output side while cranking?