The Problems With Ethanol

[gride300]

my manual says use 87 which is why i ask. as for the christian thing. i know i shouldnt have said anything harmful by saying it, but you have to admit that it is very off putting to people like myself who were A. raised jewish and B. are atheist for many years. it's that "we're right, we'll watch you burn in **** smugness." you don't see jews advertising on bill boards or slipping that in at the end of their businesses news. living in the bible belt i get it alot so it just rubs me the wrong way. on the way to tuscaloosa there's a huge sign that reads, "go to church or the devil will get you."

[gride300]

what if i owned white lake and said, "from the people who brought you the ten commandments, jew owned." and most politicians are christians FYI

[obd666]

So, in short, if your fuel system is clean, fairly new, and has no or very little water in it now, you should not have any problems with E-10.

But since the most economical 89 octane fuel I can obtain for my boat is 89 octane Arco E-10 gasoline, that is what I use. I have experienced no problems with it. In over 2279 hours of operation.

is certainly interesting to hear another perspective ...

[DanielC]

As a Christian, my thought is that topic belongs in a thread about religions, and relationships with the Creator of heaven and earth, but not here.
This thread is about ethanol, and gasoline, and how it affects your boat.

Octane ratings basically are a measure of how fast the fuel air mixture in a engine burns, after the spark plug has fired.
High octane=slow burn
Low octane=fast burn

There is a point, when the piston has moved somewhat past top dead center, that you want to have maximum pressure inside the cylinder, to generate the most power from the engine.
If the maximum pressure happen too close to top dead center, the pressure on the piston is just trying to push the crankshaft and connecting rod out of the bottom of the engine, because there is no leverage on the crankshaft. When this is happening in an engine, you can sometimes hear a knock.
If the maximum pressure happens too late, more of the cylinder walls are exposed, and that cools the gasses inside the cylinder, and the engine develops less power, but produces more heat into the cooling system.

When the engine is designed to run a certain octane rating, the ignition timing, is factored in with the cylinder compression, the valve timing, and many other factors, to produce the most power, reliably.
Modern computer controlled marine engines listen for knock to start, and they will retard the ignition timing to reduce or eliminate it. This causes a power reduction in many cases. If you take an engine requiring 89, or 92 octane gas, and have to run 87 octane. this may be happening.
However, if you put 89 or 92 octane gas in an engine designed for 87 octane, the engine will not usually advance the timing beyond "normal" so by running the higher octane than required gas, your performance probably will be degraded a bit. Your fuel consumption will go up slightly, so you end up burning more, of a more expensive gas, and getting no benefit from it.

Now, if you have an "old school" engine where you set the ignition timing, you can run a higher octane gasoline, and then slightly advance the ignition timing, and in some cases get a little more performance from the engine.

[Ceruzziracing]

In regards to Sta-bil, I was reading the labels the other day of both the marine and standard versions. The ingredients appear identical, just the amount used per gallon differed. I believe one ounce of regular Stabil treated 2.5 gallons whereas 1 ounce of marine Stabil treated 10 gallons. That is a 4x increase in volume treated by the marine version. Funny thing, my retailer charges approx 4x more for the marine version than the same volume of regular Stabil. Does anyone know if the difference between the two is something as simple as differing concentrations rather than an actual difference in ingredients? Regular Stabil is very easy to find, whereas the marine version can be elusive in my area...

[FatBoy]

In regards to Sta-bil, I was reading the labels the other day of both the marine and standard versions. The ingredients appear identical, just the amount used per gallon differed. I believe one ounce of regular Stabil treated 2.5 gallons whereas 1 ounce of marine Stabil treated 10 gallons. That is a 4x increase in volume treated by the marine version. Funny thing, my retailer charges approx 4x more for the marine version than the same volume of regular Stabil. Does anyone know if the difference between the two is something as simple as differing concentrations rather than an actual difference in ingredients? Regular Stabil is very easy to find, whereas the marine version can be elusive in my area...

As 2.5 gallons is 1/4 of 10 gallons, 4X the price would seam accurate.

[tommer12]

Anyone changing the way they winterize their boats now? For example, I normally run stable in my gas, then top my tank off. But with E10, and reading some threads, thinking about keeping my tank empty this winter

[crkdskier]

I agree with Daniels observations about his use of ethanol, 2200+ hours confirms he uses his boat alot, which further confirms the statements in the original article about ethanol in cars and trucks.
My own experiences mirror his, not only in my CC but also my triumph motorcyle, various dirtbikes, lawn mowers, tractors etc. Frequent use often has no problems, but when stored or alowed to sit for a long time I've noticed a lot more fouling of float bowls in the engines that had non treated ethanol containing fuel my generator was a perfect example (whoops).

Whenever possible I shutoff the fuel and run the carb/float bowls dry, and then add my stabilzer to the full tank. My airplane and ultralight owning buddies store their tanks full with stabilzers, for what its worth. Of course they then drain it when removed from storage...

--J

[DanielC]

In my experienced, You need to fill the tank almost full for winter storage. If your tank is empty, there is a lot of air that moves in and out of the tank with each temperature change. This large exchange of air allows a lot more water to accumulate in the tank. There is also not much gasoline, (with 10% alcohol) to absorb the water.
If you fill your tank almost full, not a lot of air will go in and out of the tank with the temperature changes. Less water will accumulate, and there will be more gasoline, (and alcohol) to absorb it.

[horkn]

I still find it funny that in SE Wisconsin we have been using E10 for nearly 20 years now. Outside of the first couple seasons of varnish and old gas residue getting cleaned out of the fuel system by the alcohol, there have been really no issues.


Older gas tanks at stations, and older boats, cars, etc that have had decades of gas varnish in them seem to be more prone to clogging fuel filter more easily.

Yes, ethanol does not get as good of gas mileage, but it's not that dramatic. You will notice more a of a drop from false advertising of a vehicles rated mpg than what the difference in mpg's from 100% regular fuel to E10 will. Ethanol will make more power though than normal gas, and won't freeze up in winter, although that last bit is not much of an issue in a ski boat.

[jjgag60]

Startron by starbright

Has anyone seen or heard anything about Startron by Starbright. They are marketing it towards boat owner with the E-10.

[mf01]

I think I lost about 1.5 MPG on my Truck and Car, since 10% Ethanol started to come around my area last year. On the Ram it's funny that it's almost a 10% loss in fuel economy (about 15.8 to 14.3 City). The 350Z is a little less, 7% (22.8 to 21.3 City). I'm not real sure on the boat.

[swc5150]

[QUOTE=horkn;147444]I still find it funny that in SE Wisconsin we have been using E10 for nearly 20 years now. Outside of the first couple seasons of varnish and old gas residue getting cleaned out of the fuel system by the alcohol, there have been really no issues.QUOTE]

To me, the fact that this product needs to be subsidized by the feds is a big issue. Regardless of the arguments of its performance, it's simply not a product that survives in the open market with gov kickbacks. I know the excuse of reducing our dependancy on foreign oil, but the private sector is superior to government as a problem-solver because private transactions require the consent of all parties to them. When government interacts with people/markets, there is always at least one party that is forced to participate and that is, therefore, abused and exploited.

Sorry for getting political, but this is, in fact a purely political issue.

[harddock]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about Startron by Starbright. They are marketing it towards boat owner with the E-10.

I use it now instead of STA-BIL. I have a pressure washer that bearly ran off choke and it's back to about 90% on one tankful. It seams to cure some of the ill effects of Ethanol.

[DealsGapCobra]

I think I lost about 1.5 MPG on my Truck and Car, since 10% Ethanol started to come around my area last year. On the Ram it's funny that it's almost a 10% loss in fuel economy (about 15.8 to 14.3 City). The 350Z is a little less, 7% (22.8 to 21.3 City). I'm not real sure on the boat.

You might have something else going on there. Based on the energy content per unit volume the reduction in mileage should be about 3% when using 10% ethanol.