Does anybody know what engine I have?

**jr.cheatham** · 02-25-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by mrbobolina View Post

I have a 1997 SNOB. I know the motor is a GT-40 351 motor made by Ford. the challenge I am having is replacing some of the parts. For example, the boat has seen some good salt water action, and had poor maintenance to keep the rush away. NOT MY FAULT - this was all previous owners doing.

Consiquently the oilpan bolt is leaking and the bottom of the pan is rusted. I am leary to touch the bolt as many parts I have "touched" have snapped because they were rusted through. I want to replace the pan completley, and the local CC dealer quoted me $800 for a new pan and gasket.

This is crazy to me, as a new pan should be like $100-$150. Ford cannot help me because while they carry a GT-40 351 motor, without knowing what car type it is hooked to the oilpans are different sizes, and would be a guess if they would or would not fit.

Nautique does not know either and sent me to PCM. I reached out to PCM who did not reply back through email. PCM did however respond to Nautique and told Nautique they could not tell them and that I needed to get in touch with my local dealer.

This is really lame to me since all CC boats after 2002, have the **** engine partslist on PCM's website to download. Granted they are PCM part numbers however that is at least a step to help compare with Ford what car this motor is comparible to.

That brings me to where I should have started to begin with. What ford car/truck does this engine match up with?

Got one a while back from skidim.com

**TX-Foilhead** · 02-25-2011, 08:49 PM

You have a Reverse Rotation 351 Windsor Block with GT40 heads, the part shouldn't be that hard to find. The $800 probably included labor because the engine needs to be lifted to instal the new pan, if not run. If your going to DIY it, be sure that you understand how to properly align the motor when you set it back down, not difficult once you understand it. If you don't it may cost you a transmission.

**DanielC** · 02-25-2011, 09:48 PM

It is NOT a reverse rotation engine. The 1.23 to 1 transmission reverses the crankshaft rotation so a clockwise rotating engine (viewed from the front of the engine) turns the propeller shaft clockwise. (viewed from behind the boat, looking forward, to move the boat forward)

I believe some of the common parts are shared with 1992. or 1993 ford lightning pickup, with the 5.8 engine. but the reality the engine probably has a closer relationship with industrial engines than automotive engines.

Whitelake is a site sponsor. As least E-mail them about the new oil pan.
Skidim is a good company to get parts from, also

If you want, I have a checklist I made when I pulled an engine out of a direct drive boat.

The biggest issue is having a hoist that can reach into a boat, and lift the engine high enough to be able to clear the boat, if you wanted to. You could just lift the engine enough to remove and replace the oil pan, but in my opinion it would be way too easy to get some old dirty oil on the carper, or interior of the boat.

**NautiqueJeff** · 02-25-2011, 10:52 PM

I agree. Check with White Lake. They'll probably have a better price than what you were quoted.

**TX-Foilhead** · 02-25-2011, 10:52 PM

Rotation isn't important for this, but you might want to figure out for sure because I have seen those motors turn both directions in Correct Craft boats. Good to know for future purchases.

An option to lifting the engine completely would be to use bottle jacks on the exhaust manifolds to tilt the motor forward, I've seen this done to remove the transmission. I'm not sure if this would be high enough for the oil pan, but something to think about if you don't have anything to lift from. Good luck, the first time is a little intimidating, but once you've done it from then on it's not that big of a deal.

**mrbobolina** · 02-26-2011, 12:48 AM

Great replies guys. The $800 was just for the parts. NO LABOR!!!! I will check the sites you all recomended. I will check them out tomorrow.

I am going to lift it myself then reset the engine and have the shop set the actual alignment. I do not want to screw that up. I have a hoist for the engine and plan to remove the back seat have it in the boat over the motor lift it up and then rest in on a platform that will go across the width of the boat. REmove the hoist and pull the boat and trailer out from uncer the platform. I am sure it sounds crazy, however last year I redid my trailer myself and had to lift the boat off and dry dock it myself. With the power of 2X4's and my loyal 125 lb girlfriend, we did it, lol.

More thoughts on an engine that is comparable on the Ford line would be appreciated still as a reference point.

**WakeSlayer** · 02-26-2011, 08:55 AM

FWIW, if you have the ability to pull the motor and replace the pan, alignment is going to be a piece of cake for you. It is not difficult at all. But critical. No need at all to pay a shop to do it.

Alignment by Eric

Everyone should check their alignment every once in a while. It will save your trans and cutlass bearing.

**horkn** · 02-26-2011, 11:16 AM

There's nothing special about the oil pan in the boat. What I would recommend is finding someone with an oil pan from a gt40 PCM, then getting the stamping number off of it. That stamping number will be a ford number. Order a new one like that, or simply call up Summit racing or Jegs and get a new one.

As long as clearance between the hull is enough, I' can't see why just about any 351W pan will work. This is not a marine specific part. The only thing you wouldn't want is a double humps style as there is no cross member to have to get around on a boat. That would make oil changes a little extra work unless you use an extractor.

I don't recall the configuration of the 351 HO sump, but I am pretty sure it's just like this on a gt40.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman-Product...ductId=1359669

edit.. DIM has this one for 400... still a lot of $$ for an oil pan, but it is a little different than the standard automotive ones.

http://skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R005004A

I guess that's half off from your original quote.

**WakeSlayer** · 02-26-2011, 12:31 PM

Why don't you pull the engine and see if you even have to replace the pan. In thinking about it, despite salt water use, I don't see why the pan would be that messed up. Probably just the gasket. And how sure are you that it isn't a front or rear seal near the bolt. While you have the pan off, you may as well do seals, you are already there.
I have lived in MN my whole life, winter roads always are salted, and with as many piece of crap cars I had over the years, I never replaced an oil pan once. Even, prior to that, if you are taking the pan out anyway, try and tighten the bolt a little. Little heat, little PB blaster up there. Nothing to lose.

**TRDon** · 02-26-2011, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by WakeSlayer View Post

Why don't you pull the engine and see if you even have to replace the pan. In thinking about it, despite salt water use, I don't see why the pan would be that messed up. Probably just the gasket. And how sure are you that it isn't a front or rear seal near the bolt. While you have the pan off, you may as well do seals, you are already there.
I have lived in MN my whole life, winter roads always are salted, and with as many piece of crap cars I had over the years, I never replaced an oil pan once. Even, prior to that, if you are taking the pan out anyway, try and tighten the bolt a little. Little heat, little PB blaster up there. Nothing to lose.

I will touch on that and say I also live in mn, and would say the same thing. There is however a known problem with the oil pan on the 94-95 mistangs with a 5.0 (windsor) which I aslo have. They have developed rust holes thought them for no apparent reason. I dont know if it is the same pan, which I doubt, but it may have occured in more than one V8 style pan that ford made. Obviously once started, the saltwater will accelerate it but it also could be something like the oil pan seal or the front or rear main seal trickling down to the oil pan and dripping off of there. That is how you can tell if a windsor motor has oil in it, it leaks

**mrbobolina** · 02-26-2011, 07:13 PM

The boat had seen signifigant salt water before I bought it. When I rebuilt the trailer there were areas I was able to push my finger straight through the steel. I was dumbfounded. The oil pan is seeping from the drain plug which is tight, so the odds are it is brass ring or what ever Oring is at the nut. Of course I cannot see the **** thing so I am guessing the extent of the situation. I can feel alot of surface rust on the bottom of the pan as well. I am famous for snapping bolts as a DIY so I am bit skeptical about touching the drain plug.

The only way to inspect the pan is to pull the motor (which is doable enough, and a pain). If I am pulling the motor the pan is going now. I just feel in my gut if I try to take that oil plug off. I am going to see rust flack ball hear that fun metal twist shrieking noise and boom I must remove the motor anyway.

I am not afraid of doing more work to do it right, just not a fan of spending more money than I want to in order to get it accomplished.

(Horkn) - I am with you the pan height and there should be a universal fit on a gt- motor - 40. Sadly, the GTFT-40 has been a staple motor for Ford for a long time. Pans have changed over the years as have the motors, and they keep calling it a GT-40. When I told Ford it was a 1997 CC they said that means nothing as boat engines could be using a current spect GT-40 or a 1980. Without a car to reference and year Ford is guessing no less than I am.

My hope is that somone on this forum will say - they know the motor and it is the same as blah blah blah. $400 is better than $800 though so far....

**SkiTower** · 02-26-2011, 07:37 PM

Few suggestions:

first, did you ask the dealer for the part number?

Second, if you do pull the motor, maybe the part number is stamped or inked on it somewhere?

Or can you get the part number off the motor and give it to Ford? Not familiar with Fords but Cat motors have an identity plate riveted to it. I would think Ford would be the same way, and I would think it would be accessible.

**horkn** · 02-27-2011, 02:01 PM

mrbobolina,

How is your oil pan shaped on your nautique's motor? Does it look like the one I linked to from DIM?

The reason ford had different shaped sumps on their automotive 351s and 302s was for completely different chassis that these motors powered. In a mustang, the 302 and 351W needed a diferrent pan than the f150 did.

Now, in my 78 nautique, it has a std single hump pan, just like the 70 some dollar one from jegs I linked to. Yours will have a different angle to the motor than mine, but even so, the angle is not enough of a difference to make a issue. Now if for some other reason PCM ran the one like I linked to from DIM, then that's all I can see. Were there any special FCC or other EFI gt40 things that need the special pan like above?

If it's simply the drain plug, try and remove that and put a new one in with a new crush washer. Even though you are admittedly prone to bolt breaking, the oil will stop that from happening. Also, the plug is pretty big in comparison to 1/4" bolts that really do like to break, but I would be more worried about the pan failing if it is as crusty as you mention. If the pan breaks from that, then you should have replaced it anyway

If you could post a pic of your pan, that will help.

**mrbobolina** · 02-28-2011, 02:35 PM

I will be taking a closer look in a few days. THe boat stays at storage in the winter.

Does anybody know what engine I have?

Does anybody know what engine I have?

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