New Gas Standards

[John Herzig]

Sorry if discussed already

Saw in newspaper boaters worried about EPA approval to move up to 15 percent ethanol mix in gas. Article said it's not been tested, and could impact boat performance and lead to expensive repairs.

Is this a problem for every boat owner or is this based on age of boat?

Thanks!

[shag]

My boat says right on the sticker and in the manual, use fuel with no more than 10% Ethanol. I think Ethanol is poor for the marine industry as well as small engines. Imo.

[91xl]

Luky for us is that sema action network has been working with legislators and has proven e15 not compatible with older vehicles and has passed a bill delaying its devolpment so we shouldn't have to worry just yet

[Gasman87]

E15

I work for a nascar team and we have used e 15 this off season,i know its not the same as pump e 15 but its eating everything we own !!!! Seals,o rings,gaskets , collects water very ez ! I have used our nascar 93 unleaded the last four years and our boat never skipped a beat . if we could go two miles on a tank of 87 pump gas ,we could only go one mile on our race gas .It burned very fast but we really didnt care ,it was free !!! Bottom line for us is IM SCARED TO DEATH TO USE E 15 !!!! Race or pump !!!

[shag]

How in the world is Ethanol supposed to help the economy? We are making our cars less efficient using it. Diesel technology has been around a long time for excellent mileage, even though lately diesel has gone up exponentially more than gas - why? Who knows.
What about hydrogen generators?

[crowland]

This ethanol is not good at all (unless you are a cornfarmer) - I've been using stabil for years since I bought my boat and they have a product that is specifically for ethanol and to stave off the effects. I recently was at the boat show in Dallas and ran across another product.

http://www.hammondscos.com/index.php?id=51

This one is specifically formulated for ethanol, whereas the Stabil ethanol product was built off of the original Stabil chemical base and has an additive to fight the effects of ethanol on the engine. They are essentially the same product, but the Biobor-EB was a little cheaper than the Stabil and is available at Westmarine.

Unless you are using your boat daily or semi-weekly then you should definitely be using some sort of additive

[MARK-S]

Subsidies

[QUOTE=shag;154331]How in the world is Ethanol supposed to help the economy?

It would not even exist if we did not subsidize it. It takes more energy to produce it than it put out. It is a scam that is killing our food prices and causing farm land prices to sky rocket.

[horkn]

ugg, ethanol isn't as bad as many people think it is. I'vebeen using it here in SE Wisconsin for 20 some years now. I've had no issues on anything from it. that includes 2 and 4 strokes summer and winter toys, vehicles , and tools.

If you can look past any government subsidies, and really look for the truth about ethanol, you'll see it's not evil like some will say.

The real issue is gas companies using low quality base fuels and then adding ethanol to it to make it high enough octane to fit the standards. That crap base fuel deserves the jeers, and not ethanol.

[ss396s]

[QUOTE=MARK-S;154481]

How in the world is Ethanol supposed to help the economy?

It would not even exist if we did not subsidize it. It takes more energy to produce it than it put out. It is a scam that is killing our food prices and causing farm land prices to sky rocket.

You are correct....subsidies for ethanol are ridiculous. It amounted to about $30 a barrel when oil was $30 a barrel.

[horkn]

At some point, subsidies won't be needed for either ethanol, or butanol production.

With all the craziness in the middle east, why wouldn't we try to find a viable alternative to oil?

[DanielC]

Maybe drill here? Instead of reading a prepared litany of barely true statistics off a teleprompter?

[AirTool]

At some point, subsidies won't be needed for either ethanol, or butanol production.

With all the craziness in the middle east, why wouldn't we try to find a viable alternative to oil?

horkn, we've been through this before on the ethanol biz. Are you a liberal congressman or lobbyist in disguise?

The world has been trying to find a viable alternative to oil since oil was discovered. The world is full of brilliant people. If there was a viable alternative, we likely would have found it already.

So, what might help right now would be for our liberal government to pull their heads out and get back to drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. Right now almost all of the 30 something deepwater floaters are idle. Day rate for these rigs is $500,000 per day plus another $500,000 per day in consumables like cement, drill pipe, mud, etc.

The platform rigs on floating platforms are also idle. I don't know the count but it is probably in the 20's. Many of the floating platforms are wet tree installations and require a separate floating drill rig to access the wells. So lets say 50 of the 53 rigs are doing nothing. The two or three working are doing abandonment or drilling water injection wells.

Shell's newest "showboat" ultra-deepwater drilling platform (the deepest drilling AND production platform in the world) is sitting basically idle because their permits were pulled right after the Macondo incident. The costs are not published, but that platform with all the subsea architecture, the platform, export pipelines, and drilling is on the order of 2 to 4 billion dollars....the majority of which had to be spent before one drop of oil was produced. They got a few wells down before the shut in so there is some production....but it is not where it needs to be to make money.

So, horkn....I could go on and on about oil production, national oil companies, blowouts, and even shale gas. But before I waste my time on you, let's hear your proposed solution so we can keep the discussion to the point.

[horkn]

LOL, no to neither.

Drilling here will only help for a few years, because what we have is minuscule compared to the amounts in the middle east.

I'm also not reading off a teleprompter of untrue stats. I don't work in the ethanol biz, but I used to work for a company that supplied machinery to the ethanol business in the Thermal oxidizer business. No, the company I worked for had no relation, and absolutely no link to ethanol. That company also supplied to GM, hyundai, peterbilt, Coke, 3M , phizer and a whole long list of companies.

If you look at oil and ethanol and butanol with a myopic viewpoint, then you'll reach the same conclusions.

Only thinking ahead will you gain knowledge.

Why do you think that all the car companies are trying to save on fuel usage, and find alternate forms of fuel/ propulsion? Simply thinking that oil is a limitless source is completely wrong. They might just be on to something if you think about it.