GM engine distributor question/run issue miss diagnosis

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  • IMPACT-EV1
    • Jan 2011
    • 86

    • indy


    #16
    with that style distributor, nothing should move in the pick-up area so I would start with replacing the pick-up, you'll have to remove the distributor from the engine to replace the part.

    Comment

    • AirTool
      1,000 Post Club Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 4049

      • Katy, Texas


      #17
      Originally posted by IMPACT-EV1 View Post
      This is not true we used silicone, but if you want to tell us otherwise that's fine, but I doubt you ever worked at Delco where they where made and know what was used.
      Who is "we" ? No I haven't worked at Delco...that would be several steps down for me. I did, though, sell auto parts for five years including thousands of Delco parts.

      I've taken off over 100 of those modules and I've never seen any GM or Ford autos with anything but metal thermal paste from the factory. When this design was current, some of the aftermarket replacements came with metal paste, some came with silicone dielectric. Then they all switched to silicone to save money. (might also be considered an environmental issue since the white stuff has nickel in it.) Those mfg's just need the module to last past warranty. Two items damage these modules: mainly heat and sometimes voltage spikes.

      Silicone dielectric is not designed to be a heat transfer compound...it is one step above toothpaste or petroleum jelly. When I change these modules, I polish the distributor with my dremel and use the proper white past. I've never had to change any module twice. They've all lasted longer than the original.

      bchesely - The module is probably your problem. The pick up coil is often not changed but it is better if it is. Let's take this repair off line. I'll PM my email that goes to my phone. If you need real time help during your repair you can email first and/or I can call you. I have limited cell access in the hill country this weekend. We need to get that GM dream of yours back in the water.

      Comment

      • IMPACT-EV1
        • Jan 2011
        • 86

        • indy


        #18
        "WE" the engineer's and designers that specified how the distributor was to be manufactured and assembled, but a parts store guy
        would know more about the aftermarket suppliers and not the oem's specs.

        Parts counter help, IS a STEP down from and ENGINEER tooo bad the pay isn't.

        But anyway pat yourself on the back if you want. The unit is based off an HE truck application FYI

        But try the module hope it works for him, but the EMI sheild is riveted in place and if that is loose then the pole pieces are too and the module will not cure that problem. After all the module either works or it doesn't irrectic idle or missfire isn't a typical problem associated with the module or causeed by the module, but it is much easier to change.
        Last edited by IMPACT-EV1; 04-25-2011, 06:50 AM.

        Comment

        • IMPACT-EV1
          • Jan 2011
          • 86

          • indy


          #19
          Originally posted by AirTool View Post
          Who is "we" ? No I haven't worked at Delco...that would be several steps down for me. I did, though, sell auto parts for five years including thousands of Delco parts.

          I've taken off over 100 of those modules and I've never seen any GM or Ford autos with anything but metal thermal paste from the factory. When this design was current, some of the aftermarket replacements came with metal paste, some came with silicone dielectric. Then they all switched to silicone to save money. (might also be considered an environmental issue since the white stuff has nickel in it.) Those mfg's just need the module to last past warranty. Two items damage these modules: mainly heat and sometimes voltage spikes.

          Silicone dielectric is not designed to be a heat transfer compound...it is one step above toothpaste or petroleum jelly. When I change these modules, I polish the distributor with my dremel and use the proper white past. I've never had to change any module twice. They've all lasted longer than the original.

          .
          FYI it's not used for heat transfer it is for corrosion prevention

          Comment

          • AirTool
            1,000 Post Club Member
            • Sep 2007
            • 4049

            • Katy, Texas


            #20
            Originally posted by IMPACT-EV1 View Post
            Parts counter help, IS a STEP down from and ENGINEER tooo bad the pay isn't.
            I worked the counter during high school and junior college. It was much cleaner than working on cars plus gave me a discount on parts for me. Did I mention it was air conditioned? The manager offered me a job at 15 because I was already rebuilding engines and fixing my neighbors cars for cash.

            I now have two engineering degrees: a BS in mechanical engineering from the University of Texas (specializing in fluid flow and heat transfer) and an MS in Petroleum Engineering from the University of Houston. The latter I got while working my regular 50 hour per week mechanical engineering job.

            Currently, I am Vice President of an engineering company. I run half the company...the offshore half. My sales budget this year is almost 40 million bucks. One week short of May, I've already sold it.

            When bchesley gets back from his trip, he is going to call me and we'll get that GM dream purring again...or slithering; whatever pythons do.

            Comment

            • IMPACT-EV1
              • Jan 2011
              • 86

              • indy


              #21
              well you must be special then, but you should stick with fluid flow, while you where standing behind a counter I was working in the air conditioned building GM owned working on the board for Delco-Remy's Ignition group all while still in high school and all ready having several years of hands on experience fixing cars in a professional garage and the ASE certificates in my pocket too boot,

              so if you think it's for thermal transfer your completely wrong, and if you think the EMI shield should move or anything on the pick-up for the HE distributor line you are sadly mistaken. But like I stated all ready it's easier to replace the module but hard to return it after it's been used. Obviuosly something is wrong with the pick-up assembly other wise nothing would be moving so it needs repaired or inspected at the very least, so chase your tail if you like.
              Last edited by IMPACT-EV1; 04-27-2011, 10:39 AM.

              Comment

              • core-rider
                1,000 Post Club Member
                • Feb 2004
                • 1345

                • Huntsville, AL

                • 2003 Black SANTE

                #22
                How about you guys break out the tape measure and drop your pants! Can we get this thread back on track and help the man out? Take your personal arguement elsewhere.

                I have had no personal dealings with that particular distributor, but working on similar distributors I would have to agree that the pickup should not be loose. If it is allowed to move I could definately see issues with misfiring. That being said, you still could have a problem with the module, but my money is on the pickup. Good luck with it!
                Jason
                All black 2003 SANTE
                -- Southern Fried --

                Comment

                • AirTool
                  1,000 Post Club Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 4049

                  • Katy, Texas


                  #23
                  Originally posted by IMPACT-EV1 View Post
                  well you must be special then,
                  I am.

                  Originally posted by core-rider View Post
                  Can we get this thread back on track and help the man out?
                  You missed the post where I noted that I pm'd bchesley with the email address to my cell phone. He is already talking to me outside this post.

                  Originally posted by core-rider View Post
                  I have had no personal dealings with that particular distributor, but working on similar distributors I would have to agree that the pickup should not be loose.
                  It is the shield he is talking about and he confirmed that in a post. The problem is likely the module. They go bad more often than a wound spool of wire.

                  Originally posted by IMPACT-EV1 View Post
                  FYI it's not used for heat transfer it is for corrosion prevention
                  Without the paste, the module will burn out long before it ever corrodes. See more below.

                  I've posted three pics. One pic shows a breakdown of the distributor in case bchesley or others need it. The shield 50 is held down by the retainer 49. 49 only holds it all down. Rotational alignment for the shield and P/U coil is achieved through the use of a roll pin in the stator. The pin is not shown and the stator not labeled because they are not ordinary service parts. The second pic is a V6 distributor i have in my junk pile that shows the pin. If you study the previous pic of the shield, you'll see how the pin aligns in the groove. IIRC, the P/U coil is the same way and (OMG) might even rotate some if you twist it back and forth. Right now, bchesley doesn't know that because he hasn't taken the shield off. The third pic shows assembly text from a genuine GM manual printed by Helm where I quote "Lubricate bottom of the ignition control module and the module rest pad in the housing with silicone grease or an equivalent heat transfer substance."

                  I can't believe I'm having to spend so much time on this but it is only to prevent bchesley from wasting time or being misdirected by people guessing.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • IMPACT-EV1
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 86

                    • indy


                    #24
                    your cunfussing two different generations of pick-up assemblies, what you just showed being an older style, the previous picture being the newer style and they do not come apart the same. Nice Chilton's manual though

                    Comment

                    • IMPACT-EV1
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 86

                      • indy


                      #25
                      Originally posted by AirTool View Post
                      special ed yes



                      I've posted three pics. One pic shows a breakdown of the distributor in case bchesley or others need it. The shield 50 is held down by the retainer 49. 49 only holds it all down. Rotational alignment for the shield and P/U coil is achieved through the use of a roll pin in the stator. The pin is not shown and the stator not labeled because they are not ordinary service parts. The second pic is a V6 distributor i have in my junk pile that shows the pin. If you study the previous pic of the shield, you'll see how the pin aligns in the groove. IIRC, the P/U coil is the same way and (OMG) might even rotate some if you twist it back and forth..
                      couple problems distributors do NOT contain a STATOR, alternators and cranking motors do. Secondly the coil may rotate and does not have to be tied dwon aligned or oriented to anything, when the pole piece on the shaft is aligned with the pole piece in the pick-up assembly that's when the coil is fired and sends it's signal to the moduel. The pole piece in the base of the distributor is keyed with a roll pin to the base plate which is clearly shown in the one picture of the older generation distributor. in the newer generation of HE distributors this was changed and no longer used to clock the pick-up assmbly.
                      Last edited by IMPACT-EV1; 04-28-2011, 11:18 AM.

                      Comment

                      • AirTool
                        1,000 Post Club Member
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 4049

                        • Katy, Texas


                        #26
                        Originally posted by IMPACT-EV1 View Post
                        FYI it's not used for heat transfer it is for corrosion prevention
                        bchesley: whether you use the silicon dielectric grease or the white oil/nickle based stuff. Be sure to read the warning in the third pic I posted:

                        "NOTICE: Be sure to thoroughly coat the bottom of the ignition control module. Failure to do so could result in heat damage to the module."

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