First time out with my new 2000 SAN - Several Problems

[Chexi]

Took the 2000 SAN out yesterday for the mini-get together on Caddo, but ran into a few problems.

1. After the engine warmed up, it would stall when idling or going very slow. With a reasonable amount of throttle, no stalling. Continued to get worse. Based on reading other posts, I suspect this is the fuel pump relay. I have not opened up the relay box on the back of the engine. Does anyone know if the 3 relays are clearly marked as to what they control or have a diagram? I just bought a spare relay the other day, so I have one to try out, but if anyone has a diagram or knows which is the fuel relay, that would be great.

2. I had previously installed the Faria analog gauge replacements for the speedo and tach (but had not tested until yesterday). Neither worked. I have gone over the installation instructions several times, and I am positive that I hooked them up correctly. I took the dash pod home with me. If I directly hook up a 9v battery to the dash lights on either gauge, I get light. If I hook up a 9v battery to the speedo IGN and GND, I get a slight movement on the needle. If I hook up a 9v battery to the IGN and GND on the TACH, I get nothing. Does anyone know whether you should be able to get some needle bounce on a working tach with a 9v hooked up to the GND and IGN posts? I think mine might be DOA.

3. Fuel gauge was bouncing like crazy, and then read a little over Full the entire day. I only ran the boat for a couple hours, and not heavily (maybe 3-4 gallons), but I would suspect some drop on the fuel gauge.

4. Engine would not turn over pretty early in. Loose connection at the battery. Brad fixed that one. Thanks Brad!

Other than the above... the boat ran great and the wake was great.

[jjgag60]

problems

Do you have the Gt-40 or? On the gt-40 we only have two fuel relays and they sit next to the ECU not in a box.

[Chexi]

I have a GT-40. I thought there were 3 inside the black box on the back of the engine (toward the front on a v-drive). Maybe I am thinking of the Excalibur. I'm just going off my interpretation from prior posts. Maybe "box" is not the correct term. Does one have to take a panel off to access the relays?

[jjgag60]

problem

Sorry mine is still in storage. If I remember correctly they mount real close to the ECU which is a above the V-drive. They remind me of the old GMC horn relays. I was able to take my old ones to NAPA and they cross referenced the numbers. About $12 each. Read some of Daniel C post. Purchasing the fuel pressure gauge is the first thing I would get. 90 percent of the problems with the gt-40 are fuel related.

[jjgag60]

Problem

If you go to the Home page on this site and then click on manual for the Gt-40 it will show you where the relay's are and discuss how to trouble shoot. It says if the pumps are not working, it will send a trouble code to the ECA. Might be worth having your local dealer put the computer on it to check for trouble codes.

[Chexi]

Thank you. I forgot that Jeff had the manuals for the engine posted.

Getting my boat to my dealer is an all day affair, so hopefully I will not need to go that route. I'll search under Daniel's name.

[crobi2]

My fuel gauge sits at full 'till about 10 gallons are gone then starts moving down. No bouncing though. I had the floor up and noticed that the top of the tank has sagged down a little - maybe this accounts for it.

The idle issue sounds like fuel or idle control. Saw some great threads on idle surge/stalling here on the site. Spark arrestor clean?

Can you return the Faria gauges and put the money towards stargazer?

Don't you just love that wake?


2000 SAN

[jimmyj]

2 relays. attached to the same 'panel' as the ecm. super easy to replace, 5 minute job.

my fuel gauge only moves after a few hours of running as well. no bounce tho.

wake is still one of the best! recommend about 2500lbs (mine has 400s on the side of engine, 750 in belly, 300+ lead in bow, then put anywhere btw 1000-1500 all over/people and or bags). its tops then. gets large/meaty and super ridable like a vlx wake, with the density and vert that has been giving riders a semi-chubb for the past 15 or years.

[Chexi]

I might be able to return the gauges, but they were not that expensive and would not put a huge dent in the stargazer cost. I would want both anyway... even though they are not needed.

Wake was great with just the factory tanks full 160 lbs of lead in the bow and 4 people in the boat (with one big guy in the bow). I plan to rip out the hard tanks and put in 750s and a seat sac in the locker, but first I want this thing running good before I spend a bunch more money.

Relays look pretty easy to replace. I'll start with the fuel relay and see if that fixes the problem.

[ers906]

Any chance there is a ground issue at the gauge pod? THat may account for the fuel gauge bouncing and the analog gauges not functioning properly. Just a thought with doing the new gauges may have knocked something loose. If you are sure the wiring is done right (I did the "upgrade" and it is pretty user friendly), then I would just may sure that the common grounds are still hooked up etc.

[Chexi]

I will look for a ground issue. The fuel gauge bounced for a few minutes, then just stayed full the rest of the day and never bounced again. The dash lights are all working off a 9v. I hope I don't have a bad ground in the keypad or something.

BTW, my volt gauge was reading like 15v when underway. Is that normal or high? Seems high to me.

[Chexi]

Erik, you may be on to something. If I hook up a 9v battery to say the speedo power and ground, not only does the speedo move slightly to the zero mark, but all of the other gauges (except the RPM gauge) move a little as well. That could be a crossed circuit or ground. I mean, they all have a common ground, but there should not be a complete circuit causing any movement on any of the other gauges, right?

[74green]

check the MAP sensor for question 1. It being disconnected or bad could cause bad idle.

[Chexi]

Regarding my gauges, I did a little more testing and here are my results:

1. Speedo. Using a 9v battery, I get a voltage reading on my volt meter by hooking up to Batt and Gnd studs. I also get voltage if I hook a 9v up to the paddlewheel. If I hook a volt meter up to the GND and SIG lines of the paddlewheel and spin the paddlewheel, I get varying voltage. All this is expected. However, when I hook everything up (isolated from the dash, so no bad ground issues possible elsewhere), I get no needle movement on the speedo when I spin the paddlewheel. I do get voltage to vary if I hook my volt meter up to the GND and SIG studs. So, either (a) the needle mechanism is broken or (b) 9v battery cannot provide enough power to move the needle.

2. Tach. I get no voltage reading when hooking a 9v up to the Batt and Gnd studs. I think this one is DOA for sure.

3. I always get some slight gauge movements on all other gauges in the dash if I hook a 9v up to any instrument's PWR and GND. I originally thought this might mean a bad ground and did a lot of testing of trying to isolate the bad gauge, but no matter what I did, it always happend. Then, I decided to use my brain and look at how things were wired. Every power line on the gauges is daisychained as is every ground. So I will always get this effect, as I am always adding power to all of the gauges. I don't think a bad ground is the culprit. I think my new gauges are just broken.

[Chexi]

Okay, so I'm still chasing some of my problems.

Here is what I have fixed/done: (1) Faria RPM gauge (original gauge sent to me was defective), (2) installed Perfect Pass Digital Pro v6.0 with Nauticlaugic system in lieu of paddlewheel (works great), (3) installed Faria speedo.

Here is my continuing problem:

(1) Boat will choke and stall. This is very intermittent, but usually once it starts, the problem persists. It happens most at idle, but can happen at other speeds.

Here is what I have done to try to fix it:
(1) Changed fuel relay
(2) Cleaned flame arrestor
(3) Replaced FCC filter
(4) Changed MAP sensor

I really thought I had it with 3 and 4. Didn't stall for hours after doing (3), but then it started up again. Swapped out 4 on the water, immediately appeared to fix the problem, but then a few minutes later, I had to stop for a downed rider on another boat and idle by, then I hammered it and I choked and stalled. Then the problem was full on and I barely got back to the launch.

At this point I took it to a dealer (different dealer than before, since the first dealer could not re-create or identify the problem). I do not believe that the first dealer checked the fuel pump pressure. That would have been a good idea, but I kind of get the idea that they did not believe me since the boat ran fine for 30 minutes on their test. At any rate, since none of the above fixed the problem, I suspect that I have a fuel pump on its way out. We'll see what Tyler Ski N Sport can find out.