My 2000 SAN problem with video

[Chexi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hB2H7BakvA
Above is a link to a youtube video I just posted taken from video shot yesterday. As you will see, my idle (a) seems high when it is not bouncing (800's rpms - 1000 rpms), and (b) bounces sometimes (not always). I also will stall at idle sometimes (not always), and can get some bucking/jerking which may lead to a stall when cruising. Seems to happen more with hot engine. If it is happening a lot, if I stop and wait for a bit, it goes away for a while.

I have (1) replaced fuel relay, (2) replaced MAP sensor, (3) cleaned spark arrestor, (4) replaced fuel filter, (5) tried different batter, (6) cleaned battery terminals and connectors, (7) replaced ground - battery connector, and (8) cleaned anti-siphon screen. Actually, the dealer did the last two.

The video is not straight through. There are several minutes in between parts of the video that the boat ran fine. This is an intermittent problem that neither of 2 dealers have been able to re-create, hence the video.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I suspect idle speed control solonoid (will try to clean) and/or TP sensor based on the diagnostic manual. All of my symptoms (high idle, rolling idle, stalling, bucking and jerking) have the common denominator of idle air control in the diagnostic procedures.

[Chexi]

Here is another video where I pull the Idle Speed Control Solinoid harness off when the idle is bouncing. It seems to tame down when I do. There are so many variables with fuel injection though that I don't know if this means that the ISC is the problem or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfYF24Ec1Rw

[j2nh]

Throttle position sensor? We suddenly started having a similar problem on our club 05 196 W/Zr375. On of our guys is a Goodwrench mechanic and is checking it tonight. Will let you know what we find.

Boat warms up fine, use it and then when you return the throttle to idle the thing will run up to 1200-1500 rpm and "idle" there. Blip it a couple of times and it comes down, sometimes. Not a Perfect Pass issue, went through the system and even disconnected it.

[Chexi]

Do you ever have it where you are just cruising and suddenly the rpms jump all over the place, the boat bucks and jerks, and then it may or may not stall? This happens to me.

I've been trying to buy a TP sensor, but the ones I find at the autoparts stores all have a hole through them that is covered on mine. Nautiqueparts is working with me and PCM to get one, but PCM has the part x-ref'd wrong and it keeps showing up as the entire throttle assembly! Argh!

It might also be the Idle Speed Control solonoid... which I have ordered. Or... it could be 1 of 100 other things.

[j2nh]

Perfect pass was hanging up on the cover of the engine. We had ground it out once with a dremel but the cover shifted and was catching. Good news for us, wish it was an answer for you.

[SANCasey]

Chexi,

You rode in my 2000 SAN with my brother last week and he told me about your problem. My did something similar a couple years ago, but I doubt yours is the same fix. For my boat, we replaced the kill switch, which had "sun rot" just enough to have intermitten contact. The boat would almost die and then bounce back and the rpm's would surge. The other issue was securing the Perfect Pass better and making sure the cables were routed clear of any obstructions. Probably not your issue, but something to check.

Good luck.

- Casey

[Chexi]

Thank you for getting back to me Casey. These actually may very well be my issue, or partly anyway. I think my PP does need adjustment, which may be part or all of the idle issue. Also, my kill switch was apparently bypassed before I bought the boat. That bypass could be shorting, although it did not sound like the short was coming from there. We'll soon see. The dealer is going to look at it tomorrow.

Thank you and Cody for the pulls. I was so happy to see a classic SAN at the event. The water was pretty rough, but I still had a great time. Nice job on that custom seat and sub by the way. I still owe you all some gas money. PM me your paypal email address and I'll send it.

[tourpro]

Boy, I sure hope you get this fixed soon.

[Chexi]

I'm sure it will be fixed, either (a) right after my family reunion in mid-late August where I have people coming from 4 states with the expectation of using the boat every day or (b) right after the drought causes the lake levels to be too low to launch. Ski N Sport is stepping up and I have every confidence in them... but they are in a death match with ol' Murphy, and he doesn't give up easily.

[AirTool]

I'm still thinking 70% chance of it being that limp mode oil pressure switch. I wish you could have run it with that one disconnected.

10% chance of the ECA.

20% some loose connection or not so obvous non-part issue.

[crobi2]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I also have a 2000 SAN and understand your pain.

In the video, when the tach pegged out it did not seem that the motor was reving to 5000 RPM. If that is correct, then whatever is supplying the tach with its signal is faulty or a wire is shorted.

When at idle, I can hear the motor running between 800 and 1100 RPM until it dies which confirms that it truly is erratic at idle. This could be the result of a faulty RPM signal or short though.

I think the behavior of the tach may be the key. It is getting an erratic/shorted signal from the distributor or the upgraded faria guages have a connection problem. I would definitely try to track down the reason for the tach spiking 5000 RPM when the motor is not revving 5000 RPM.

What does the RPM do on the perfect pass? It happens so quickly, the digital gauge may not be able to display it.

The motor sounds beautiful otherwise.

[Chexi]

Good questions C-Rob.

The motor does not rev to 5000 RPM when the tach pegs. It will start choking when the needle starts bouncing though. It is as if the the Tach jumps (but RPMS don't), the ECM says, "holy crap... what the $#%#$% just happened, I better cut the rpms to something safe, and then shuts down the fuel supply."

I am pretty sure it's not a short on the gauge. I disconnected the tach, taped all the ends, and ran it. I still had the intermittent problem / stalling. I also checked the wires pretty carefully behind the dash. I found some bare parts of two wires a while back and taped those up, but those weren't tach wires.

The PP does not show the rpm jumps. I believe that you are correct that it happens too quickly for the digital to interpret it and display it.

I think it is a short, as I heard arcing somewhere when the needle was bouncing on the tach (after the engine died and the tach kept bouncing). Engine is too loud to hear the shorting when it is running. Could be a short on the Profile Ignition Pickup, the tach resistor, or the line between the two... or somewhere else.

Might also be a short in the toggle switch or kill switch. Seems less likely, but sometimes after it happens I can't restart it. I have power, the motor turns, but it won't fire. Usually, if I toggle the main switch at the kickplate off and then on... it fires right up. But this could just be resetting the ECM, which was confused by the short. Hopefully there are some useful codes stored on the ECM and the techs can grab them tomorrow.

[Chexi]

I'm still thinking 70% chance of it being that limp mode oil pressure switch. I wish you could have run it with that one disconnected.

10% chance of the ECA.

20% some loose connection or not so obvous non-part issue.

I'll send an email to Ski N Sport and have them check the oil pressure switch. I thought Buxton may have already replaced that, but I'll have to go and check my invoice.

[AirTool]

The 20% includes the toggle and kill switch issue. Tachs commonly peg when abruptly connected or disconnected from power.

Still thinking the power glitch could cause one of the two relays (ECA & fuel) to open/close and not the other throwing the whole system out of wack for a moment. Some theory available but I won't post now...lunch over.

wm

[SANCasey]

I also replaced the oil sensor in my boat at some point because it was causing the boat to enter limp mode.

No need to send money for the pulls. Hope you enjoyed your trip to Austin.

- Casey