ZDDP in oil

[EchoLodge]

Took the case of NAPA 40W back and exchanged for the VR1 40w. Ouch... Stuff aint cheap!

[74green]

Well it was probably the decade when the FRAM filters was owned by Dana/Spicer heritage IIRC and quality was top. Now I think it is separate and run by bean counters and most of the orange stuff is from China...including the industrial stuff. A sad day for the color orange...one of my favorites.

I miss the "sure grip" feature.

[AirTool]

I miss the "sure grip" feature.

Yes - that was a brilliant idea.

[DanielC]

The least important feature of a oil filter is some gimmick that has no effect on how well it works.
If you cannot get an oil filter off easily with even a cheap oil filter wrench you are putting it on too tight.

You can get USA made genuine Motorcraft FL1-A oil filters at Wal-Mart, for less than $4.00 here in Oregon. I assume the price is about the same elsewhere in the USA.

[gtxragtop]

Shell Rotalla T

I emailed Shell and asked them if 15W-40 in my 96 Nautique with flat tappet cams was acceptable. They stated yes. Oddly enough, they stated to stay away from straight weight oils.

Seems like Rotella T and Valvoline VR1 are very close to each other in zinc and phosphorus. Plus shell claims that other additives in this oil reduce cam wear better than the previous version that had higher zinc/phos.

-------------------------------------------
Note: I pulled this note below off the web.

"I thought I'd e-mail Shell and ask what they claimed. Here's what they said:

"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured.""

[DanielC]

What do you think almost any company would say, "No, our product is not suitable for your use"?

PCM has said to use the straight weight 40 oil in the GT-40 engine. There must be a reason why. Can you use other oils? Sure, you can. It is your engine. But I will choose to take the advise of the engine supplier, especially when it does not involve something involving their direct sales.

[gtxragtop]

What do you think almost any company would say, "No, our product is not suitable for your use"?

PCM has said to use the straight weight 40 oil in the GT-40 engine. There must be a reason why. Can you use other oils? Sure, you can. It is your engine. But I will choose to take the advise of the engine supplier, especially when it does not involve something involving their direct sales.

You will note that my statement concerning weight was that Shell suggested NOT to use straight weight of THEIR oils for this application.
Back in 96 there was plenty of zinc/phos in the oils when PCM made oil recommendations. I'll drop a note to PCM and see what they have to say.

[DanielC]

You are missing my point. You are taking advise from a person who is essentially a salesman. their livelihood, and salary depends on selling their product. Of course, they will tell you to use their company's product.

Get advise anywhere you want. But consider, some opinions may be biased, not in your favor, if money is involved.

[DougPhillips]

Surprised no one here has mentioned Joe Gibbs oil.

I use VR1 in the race car. I buy cases when it is 25% off at NAPA.

Just saw a press release from Quaker State saying they are bring out a high zinc oil.

[AirTool]

The least important feature of a oil filter is some gimmick that has no effect on how well it works.
If you cannot get an oil filter off easily with even a cheap oil filter wrench you are putting it on too tight.

You can get USA made genuine Motorcraft FL1-A oil filters at Wal-Mart, for less than $4.00 here in Oregon. I assume the price is about the same elsewhere in the USA.

Lighten up. The grip was ingenious and allowed the filter to be removed by hand even when oily. I think we've all agreed Fram's days are over.

I agree on your Motorcraft comment. But some trivia you might be interested in....you've noted before that Motorcraft filters must be good because they are spec'd out and used by Ford, etc or some variant of that. This year I bought a new 2011 Ford and last year I bought a new 2010 Ford. Neither of them came with a Motorcraft oil filter. Both filters were white and unlabeled and the wrench crimping matched that of the non-Motorcraft variety if you know what I mean - not Motorcraft - so they probably were not the same spec.

[74green]

Fram filters had a great idea to allow "easy" removal without a monkey wrench. still is a great feature....but just not on the best product....

[74green]

came across this. didnt recall seeing this posted before...
need more zddp? zddplus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zt6m6fRxDk

[TRBenj]

you've noted before that Motorcraft filters must be good because they are spec'd out and used by Ford, etc or some variant of that.

No, Motorcraft filters "must" be good because theyve been dissected, and found to have decent filter media and anti-drainback valves. The same reason why Frams are no longer considered very good (proof).

The levels of zinc/phos of the Rotella-T 15w40 (1200/1100 ppm) are pushing what Ive read to be the bare minimum to use on a flat tappet motor. I used to be a big fan of the Rotella, but now choose either 20w50 VR1 or 15w50 M1, as both are in the 1300/1200 ppm range.

[EchoLodge]

I use VR1 in the race car. I buy cases when it is 25% off at NAPA.

How often does this occur? Whats the best way to get notified?

[gtxragtop]

No, Motorcraft filters "must" be good because theyve been dissected, and found to have decent filter media and anti-drainback valves. The same reason why Frams are no longer considered very good (proof).

The levels of zinc/phos of the Rotella-T 15w40 (1200/1100 ppm) are pushing what Ive read to be the bare minimum to use on a flat tappet motor. I used to be a big fan of the Rotella, but now choose either 20w50 VR1 or 15w50 M1, as both are in the 1300/1200 ppm range.

Please provide links to data from the manufacturers to back up this data. Otherwise, it is folklore as these vendors are continually changing there specs. Another spec that oil vendors provide that piss me off is the ACEA spec. They DO NOT tell you which year they refer to when they say for example ACEA-A5. There is a 2008, 2007, 2004, 2002 spec for A5 and the later year specs are more stringent. This is an interesting tool to compare oil specs.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/.../pc/index.html

Looking at the Valvoline MSDS sheets for VR1 (need to figure out which SKU number) ZDDP is >=1-<1.5%
See http://msds.ashland.com/msds-ext/msd...SearchHC&id=20

Premium blue diesel 15W-40 is >=1.5% -<5% zinc compounds. See http://msds.ashland.com/msds-ext/msd...SearchHC&id=16

So your better off with Rotella T 15W40 than VR1 if the Rotella T data is valid.