Ballast System Planning - '99 SAN

[MI-Nick]

Recently bought a '99 SAN and am now planning for a ballast system. Basic plan is to remove the existing system and replace with a 3 bag system with reversible pumps. i already have one jabsco so i'm going to get 2 more. i also have 2 400lb fly high sacs already so i'll use those in the rear and get the rr seat/ski locker sac for the front...when i get bored with that i'll swap the 400's for 750's and then add the integrated bow sac...but, that's another thread altogether.
The boat will be stored in NC (i'm in MI) until march so I have a few dumb questions for people with similar boats.

First set of dumb questions :
1) How many through hulls does the factory system have for intake?? I think it has 1 3/4" but I'm not sure.
2) How many through hulls does the factory system have for vent?? I think there is a 3/4" on either side...but again not sure.

of course i have more questions, but we'll start with the intake and vent first.

thanks.

[vanislwake]

Yes those 99s only have 1 thru hull for the intake since they share a common full pump. I suggest drilling two more thru hull intakes so each pump has there own. I believe but not 100% certain that you will have 2 ports above the waterline on each side total of 4 2 are vents and 2 are overflows. With the jabscos I prefer to keep it simple and allow the water to fill and drain under the boat eliminating the need for check valves and pointless dollars spent.

[MI-Nick]

any idea the size of the through hulls?? i think they are all 3/4" but, I'm not sure. my plan is to fill and drain from the bottom as you mention. i'll have a vent line on each bag but no check valve. i was planning to just enlarge the existing intake to 1" or 1 1/4" -> 90 elbow -> ball valve -> and then one of these http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-pipe-fittings/=fxkymg with a 1" hose going to each pump.
the jabsco pumps are rated at 640GPH (less if they are above the water line) X 3 = 1920GPH...the 1" through hull has a flow capacity of 2200GPH so I don't really see the need of going with more than 1 or larger than 1".

[vanislwake]

all the thru hulls are 3/4" yes.

Ok the reason you want to drill 2 more thru hulls is because if you try and share 1 with a manifold or triple T fittings you are forced to only be able to fill or drain at one time. for me this doesn't work because when we surf we have both goofy and regular riders so we constantly switch sides which means draining one side and filling the other if you sharing a thru hull you cannot fill and drain at the same time! Unless you add T fittings and check valves between the intake and the pump, but doing this makes plumbing look more like a birds nest and will be far less reliable!! Put it this way the newer nautiques all have dedicated thru hulls for each pump, and they fill and drain out the bottom, there systems are the most reliable in the industry! Mastercraft on the other hand like the xstar uses the jabscos but instead runs 1 big intake to a triple manifold that feeds all 3 pumps and uses check valves so the water drains out the side above waterline, you find me a mastercraft owner that has never had ballast issues with that system!! they airlock constantly.

trust me drill 2 more intakes, it may sound scary but its a piece of cake, use the 3m marine adhesive sealant guaranted no leaks! And 3/4" thru hulls is all you need to supply those pumps, put a 3/4" npt- 1" hose fitting after your ball valve and run 1" hose all the way. you can just run 3/4" hose for your overflow/vent.

[MI-Nick]

i don't surf so not being able to fill and drain at the same time is a non issue for me. drilling more holes doesn't bother me either...i'm going for lower cost and simplicity. that being said, i did check a 3, 3/4" system vs. 1, 1" or 1, 1 1/4"...going from intake to hose barb...1, 1" is lowest cost followed by , 3, 3/4"'s, and a single 1 1/4" being the most...but the spread is only $50. is there an elbow and valve that could be re-used from the factory system?? is there plenty of room for 3 elbows and valves down there??
thanks a lot for your help...it's really difficult to plan this not knowing what i'm starting with...

[MI-Nick]

i guess i don't really need 90 elbows if i use 3 intakes...that would make 3, 3/4"'s the lowest cost...maybe best overall...

[vanislwake]

i guess i don't really need 90 elbows if i use 3 intakes...that would make 3, 3/4"'s the lowest cost...maybe best overall...

You don't surf? Geez you should try it cause those hulls throw a real nice wave weighted down properly.

Go with 3 separate thru hulls you will regret it if you don't. Sharing a common thru hull your increasing your chances for problems with air locking etc.

[MI-Nick]

i'll surf in the ocean...not a fan of wake surfing.

next question is where to mount the pumps. on the transom seems to be the most logical for hose routing..., but i'm not sure what is back there for attachment...

[seth]

Most people mount them behind the rear seat using an aluminum plate. There are so many great ballast install threads on this site. There is even a really nice install on a 96 SS on general discussion page. Oh I also agree that surfing should be left to the ocean!!!

[MI-Nick]

i've read a lot of really good ballast install threads on here...unfortunately in a lot of them the photos are gone.
i did see a couple with the pumps on an Al plate and the plate bolted to the plyon support...seems solid. is that difficult to access??

[Chexi]

all the thru hulls are 3/4" yes.

Ok the reason you want to drill 2 more thru hulls is because if you try and share 1 with a manifold or triple T fittings you are forced to only be able to fill or drain at one time. for me this doesn't work because when we surf we have both goofy and regular riders so we constantly switch sides which means draining one side and filling the other if you sharing a thru hull you cannot fill and drain at the same time! Unless you add T fittings and check valves between the intake and the pump, but doing this makes plumbing look more like a birds nest and will be far less reliable!! Put it this way the newer nautiques all have dedicated thru hulls for each pump, and they fill and drain out the bottom, there systems are the most reliable in the industry! Mastercraft on the other hand like the xstar uses the jabscos but instead runs 1 big intake to a triple manifold that feeds all 3 pumps and uses check valves so the water drains out the side above waterline, you find me a mastercraft owner that has never had ballast issues with that system!! they airlock constantly.

trust me drill 2 more intakes, it may sound scary but its a piece of cake, use the 3m marine adhesive sealant guaranted no leaks! And 3/4" thru hulls is all you need to supply those pumps, put a 3/4" npt- 1" hose fitting after your ball valve and run 1" hose all the way. you can just run 3/4" hose for your overflow/vent.

This is not true. You absolutely can fill and drain at the same time with 1 thru-hull and a manifold. Many people have used this method (including me, Wake_fun, etc.) The only thing you have to be careful about with 1 thru-hull is to make sure it is big enough to have the volume to fill all your bags at the same time.

You only cannot fill and drain at the same time if you are using only 1 pump and a diverter valve/manifold.

[MI-Nick]

i'm back on the single 1" through hull...is there room in the bilge to go through hull -> valve -> cross straight up...maybe 6" total??

also, another dumb question/confirmation...the fill/drain hose for revesible pumps should connect to the bottom of the sac right??

[Chexi]

Check out Wake_fun's signature. There is even room for a 1.5" thru-hull, valve, and cross. Some even have 90 degree street elbow in there. Heck, I know a guy who fit that in the motorbox of a 98 Air.

Yes, the drain/fill lines go on the side bottoms of the sacs. Vents off the top.

Be sure you go in reverse with your hole saw while cutting through the gelcoat. Tape the area too with painter's tape first. If you do not do this, you can chip your gelcoat pretty bad. Once you hit glass, you can switch to forward on your drill. You may want to tape the inside too after you drill the pilot hole. I have a friend with a MasterCraft that had the inside top layer of his glass delaminate when drilling a thru-hull. Now that was a MC, so it probably wouldn't happen with a Nautique, but better to be safe than sorry.

[vanislwake]

When I put in the work to do a ballast install I prefer to do it in a way to get the "optimal" efficiency and performance out of and if your using one thru hull to fill and drain 3 pumps/ sacs you are NOT! I don't understand why people are so afraid of drilling another hole or 2? The new nautiques use 3 seperate thru hulls for a reason, performance and reliability! Do as you wish but I wouldn't even consider tripling up off 1 thru hull but that's just me and the fact in constantly draining port and filling starboard vise versa is a big reason for that sure you can still do that with 1 but I guarantee you will have air locking issues constantly.

[crobi2]

I was looking at the bottom of an '04 SANTE 210 the other day and the intake for the center tank was at the back of the tank just under the latch for the floor (lid). The through-hull was a flush (and I do mean FLUSH) mount grill and they had a seaco*k on it. There was one of the old atwood 750 baitwell pumps for fill and a second one on the back/bottom of the tank for drain (overboard).

Since that is about where the water breaks on the hull when on plane, I would be terrified that I would screw up the wake if I tried to duplicate that on my boat. I used the old 3/4" intake from the original factory system and drilled a 1" new intake next to the engine raw water intake.