Advice on Nautique dealers/service

[ES]

Hi, there is only one Nautique dealer on Lake Gaston (NC) and I wanted to ask your opinion. I often get the sense that since they are the only dealer in the area, they often take advantage of this...I don't have much experience with Nautique service, so I would appreciate your perspective.

About a week ago our 2010 210 SANTE water pump broke. Still under warranty, it was clearly a PCM issue. They replaced the water pump, water pulley and main pulley. Nevertheless, we still got a $240 invoice. The breakdown is $50 for the seawater impeller (which being is not covered by warranty - though I can buy it myself for $35), $95 for service to my boathouse (which they say is not covered by PCM) and another $95 to install the impeller, which took 30 seconds.

I constantly get the feeling that I am being ripped off. This is not the first time I am getting presented with a similar invoice, so I am wondering if this is the standard or whether this is beyond what I should expect.

Thanks for your help!

[DanielC]

Lets start with this.
I would like to see the mechanic that can change a raw water pump impeller in a V-drive boat on 30 seconds. You are losing credibility with that statement.
$95 for service to your boat house, more than fair.
In most instances, shops do mark up parts they have to buy around 40%. It takes time and money to order the parts, maintain inventory, pay for overhead of running a business.

If you really do not like the fact that a business has to charge to stay in business, learn to do simple maintenance items yourself.

[ES]

Thanks DanielC,
the reason why I mentioned 30 seconds is because PCM requires the mechanic to inspect the impeller for damage, in order to accept the claim. Once you remove the old impeller, replacing it is pretty quick.

I am all for keeping people in business (being a small business owner myself) and paying for quality. But I still find popping in a new impeller for $95 a bit excessive.

Any other input from other Nautique owners?

[Jono]

The local nautique dealer in my area charges $240 for an impeller change. Yes 30 seconds is an exaggeration , but 10 minutes isn't. There are alot of boat mechanics that need to be chained to a toilet. for a few days to transform them back to being fair reasonable people.

[xlair]

Price for the impeller is a bit high but still fair. Cost for a lake visit i still reasonable at $100. The labor to replace the impeller is a bit high. However, there may be a 1 hr minimum charge for a lake visit. 1/2 hr is probably more fair so maybe you got over charged by about $50 total. Is what it is at the end of the day.

[AirTool]

On the 30 seconds, I think his point is "They replaced the water pump, water pulley and main pulley." under warranty and while the mech was there it took 30 extra seconds to replace the impeller. 30 extra seconds is credible.

So,

1: Shouldn't PCM have covered the impeller due to the failure of the other parts. Impellers are not covered as a wear item but should be covered if they were wrecked by a pump bearing or pulley.

2: Shouldn't the labor time PCM pays the dealer to replace all this include an allowance for the dealer to swap the impeller? Therefore this dealer may have been paid twice...once by PCM and once by ES.

3: I have had many auto mechs private and branded replace parts for me for the cost of the part if that part is being removed to replace another part. For instance you have to pay parts and labor to replace an alternator. Mech says "hey if you buy a new belt from me, I'll put it on instead of the old one for no extra labor." He does, however, make money on the belt but it is an honest markup. Last year I had lower ball joints put on my 4x4 tahoe. They found the sealed bearing was bad while it was all a apart and called me. They only charged me the bearing cost when it was all done.

So, IMO, besides the call out price which I doubt PCM covers. I think ES got somewhat ripped off. If he had ordered an impeller job on its own, that's a different thread.

[DanielC]

You mentioned you have a 210 SANTE. Changing an impeller in a V-drive boat can be a bit of a problem, possibly requiring removing interior panels beside the engine. Usually there is one standard rate for V-drive boats for am impeller change.
Quite often, working in a boat dealership you get V-drive boats with the back storage compartments loaded full of all the gear the owner has. Wakeboards, life jackets, ropes, extra fat sacks, towels, and who knows what else. After emptying all the gear, you then have to often remove panels that separate the storage from the engine compartments. All this just to get to where you can see, and touch the raw water pump.

You bought one of the top of the line wakeboard boats. You bought a more difficult boat design to work on.

If you do not like the price you are charged for pretty simple maintenance items, learn to do them yourself.

[AirTool]

If you do not like the price you are charged for pretty simple maintenance items, learn to do them yourself.

DanielC. You are a smart man. But take a deep breath and re-read that he had an approved warranty claim from PCM. This was not a "pretty simple maintenance item."

He can chose to do the next one or not. But, the choices on this one were made by PCM and the dealer. I think the dealer shouldn't have charged for the impeller labor and; not knowing the exact cause of the damage....the impeller cost is suspect also. This impeller probably cost PCM about 3 bucks and they should have comp'd it as part of the covered repair. Especially if his impeller had only a few hours on it.

[TRDon]

You mentioned you have a 210 SANTE. Changing an impeller in a V-drive boat can be a bit of a problem, possibly requiring removing interior panels beside the engine. Usually there is one standard rate for V-drive boats for am impeller change.
Quite often, working in a boat dealership you get V-drive boats with the back storage compartments loaded full of all the gear the owner has. Wakeboards, life jackets, ropes, extra fat sacks, towels, and who knows what else. After emptying all the gear, you then have to often remove panels that separate the storage from the engine compartments. All this just to get to where you can see, and touch the raw water pump.

You bought one of the top of the line wakeboard boats. You bought a more difficult boat design to work on.

If you do not like the price you are charged for pretty simple maintenance items, learn to do them yourself.

For being one of the more level headed posters on this board, I do believe you are overlooking the fact that the parts had to come out anyway so there was no extra labor involved. In my clear opinion, if the impeller was out because of a warranty issue involved with the water pump and impeller removal was necessary to facilitate those repairs, than the cost of the impeller is valid due to it being a wear item, however, if the impeller had been 100% fine, should he have been charged for the reinstallation of the old impeller. I would certainly expect not. They got their markup on the impeller, that is certain. The install for a part that came out at warranty inspection to get charged upon reinstall is a joke. As far as the house call, I think you got away cheap for less than $100. If you have an electrician or a plumber come out, just to show up I'm my part of the world is a lot more than that. You ae asking the shop to come to you. Warranty or not, you really should expect to pay something for your convience. You could have forgone that charge by bringing it to them. Think of the hassle of taking it out, bringing it to them, taking it back, putting it in the water, and that is IF you have a trailer. Now the 100 doesn't seem so bad does it?

[DanielC]

I will be honest, I am taking the dealers side in this situation. I have been the owner who took his boat to a dealer for routine maintenance, and I also have had the experience of working at a Nautique dealer for a few years.

Trust me, being an employee or the owner of a boat dealership is not all test drives of the latest model from Correct Craft, taking people out in their new boat checkout cruise, and rolling in the dough, from thousands of dollars of profit from the latest boat sale.

I used to get asked about the dealership cost on an oil change for a boat. $50 to $75 for doing something iffy lube does for $19.95? Then I explain, you bring your boat in, and drop it off in the parking lot. I have to take the boat into the shop, and hook it up to water, to run it, and warm it up. While it is warming up, I have to remove the gear in the storage lockers on a V-drive boat, and often panels to get to the engine. I then drain the oil, and change the filter, and refill with oil. Then I restart the engine, and check for oil leaks, and make sure the oil pressure is good. Now, I can reassemble the boat, putting all the panels in place, and put your gear back into the storage lockers, and finally move the boat outside. Then I deal with the paper work, complete the work order, and also make sure the stock of oil and filters does not run out. Many times, I also clean the boat out, to make sure no dirt was tracked into the boat by me, clean the windshield, and do a few other things. A quick check on trailer lights. Check tire pressure. Check lug nut torque.

I am going to suggest a lot of boat dealers are more worried about making the next months payroll, trying to keep mechanics busy between Labor day, and the first frost, not enjoying Summer, because one of your customers wants his boat tomorrow for a vacation trip they have been planning for a year, but somehow dewinterizing seemed to slip their mind.

Warrenty repairs are paid by PCM, and Correct Craft based on a flat rate. The time allowed is not generous. Most times, the labor rate (pay) allowed for warranty repairs is less than hourly shop rate the dealer normally charges it's customers.

On a remote service call, trust me, the dealer loses their butt. While the mechanic is out of the shop, driving, he is not making any money for the dealer. Yes, there is the money for a service call, but it does not cover the time in the shop lost, or expenses occurred. Consider the cost of the vehicle they are driving, the insurance on the vehicle, the losses from not having the mechanic in the shop, trust me, $100. for a remote service call does not cover expenses.

"our 2010 210 SANTE water pump broke" What does that mean? I would think that if the water pump broke, they would just put in a new one. In fact, in 2003, there was a recall on the water pump used on some PCM engines. Was the pump broke because the impeller was bad? Why did the impeller go bad? Was it ran dry? Was the boat beached, and sucked some sand into the raw water pump?

Consider this. If the local Nautique dealer goes out of business, where do you take your boat for service? The dealership has to make money. If they do not, they are gone. Is it possible that the dealership made some "extra" money on this? Maybe. But also consider this. Taking in all the costs involved with this warranty repair, and all the income from both from the original poster, and the the warranty claim, it is very likely the dealer did not make any profit on this service call.

[Sell]

In my opinion if PCM has approved the warranty claim, the owner should be up for nothing more than a call-out charge as he decided not to tow the boat to the dealer. The impellor may not be covered under warranty, but a raw-water pump failure surely must cause some level of damage to the impellor. Assuming this is true, the PCM bears the responsibility of the cost.

I am in Australia & our laws are somewhat different to those in the US however, so I can only really respond based on my experience.

Finally, I have never seen inside the engine bay on a post 07 210. But if you can't do an oil change, including filter & an impeller change in less than 25 minutes on a legacy 210 with an Ex-Cal engine you must have your eyes closed. You most definately do not need to remove any locker panels.

[Nordicron]

I agree with most. Dealer is double dipping on this. They got paid by PCM already to look at the impeller. Ask your dealer this question and see what they say. Then if it still bugs you call PCM an see what they say about it.

[TRDon]

Consider this. If the local Nautique dealer goes out of business, where do you take your boat for service? The dealership has to make money. If they do not, they are gone. Is it possible that the dealership made some "extra" money on this? Maybe. But also consider this. Taking in all the costs involved with this warranty repair, and all the income from both from the original poster, and the the warranty claim, it is very likely the dealer did not make any profit on this service call.

If shady business practices are what it takes to keep a dealer in business, than I would rather take my boat to another inboard dealer. Nautique does not have an exclusive deal with PCM so warranty is not an issue to take it elsewhere. Inboards are just engines, most places, even auto repair places can work on them. It isn't right that they may be double dipping weather it is because they are greedy or because they are not charging enough for a trip charge to keep their dealership in business. I don't know the reason or the underlying issues with having a dealer, but I do know that charging an extra 50 to install a part that was coming out for warranty anyway is shady, double dipping, unrealistic, and downright wrong. Having a lean margin to be a dealer is absolutely not a legitimate excuse to have practices like that. I really cannot understand your justification for such an action.