SV211 Ballast Pump re-route

[BriNWrdr]

Has anyone moved the pumps on their early model 211's to the engine compartment? I'm looking for a factory diagram or pictures of the hose routing for the forward pump. The next time I change the impeller, I would like to relocate the pump, so that it isn't as difficult to service. Thanks!

[dfoster]

By "forward pump" do you mean the pump for the belly ballast? I have a 2004 211, but as far as I know I have aerator pumps, not impellor based pumpts, so I'm not sure we have the same setup. For me, moving the belly pump back to the engine comparment would be a big move and not worth the effort.

[BriNWrdr]

Yes I am referring to the belly ballast. It is a pain to get to the pump and I would like to move it to the engine compartment.

[Mikeski]

Yes, All three of my fill pumps are now located on the top cross-member of the ski tow support frame. My 211 is a 2005 so it came with the flow-wrong valves, then replaced by TH valves by the dealer, and now eliminated by impeller type fill pumps. No more valves for me. If you pop out the center belly pan over the gas tank you will be able to see the hose. My center fill pump was mounted behind the ski locker on the front drain plug. It now draws water from the raw cooling water intake. The center fill pump has also been replaced with a impeller driven pump (pump 4) and it runs a hose to fill/drain auxiliary ballast bags.

[Toster]

My 211 is a 2005 so it came with the flow-wrong valves, then replaced by TH valves by the dealer.

Mikeski, What do you mean the flow-wrong valves? I have a 2004 and it has a typical 1/4 turn ball valve. They have extensions that come up from the ball valve up to a blue handle. Were they marked wrong? the decal on mine show "open" in the "front to back position" and closed when the handle is perpendicular to the boat center line. The reason I'm asking is I have had some trouble filling my tanks on a (new to me '04 - 211). I just got done digging out the pumps, but they seem to be working fine.

[NautiqueJeff]

The flow-rite valves (AKA flow-wrong because they are terrible) were used as part of the helm control ballast feature. Your '04 should have had them from the factory, but somewhere along the line someone may have removed them.

More about the flow-wrongs here:
https://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/f...ballast-valves

[Mikeski]

Hi Toaster,
Sorry for the late reply.

The ballast system on your boat should have come from the factory similar to mine. From lake to tank to drain port here are the components:
1. Two scoop pickups for rear tanks under the engine for rear ballast tanks. Front through hull under access plate inside ski locker.
2. Immediately downstream of the pickups are ball valves that should normally remain open (emergency shut off valves). The rears have stainless L extensions on them so you can turn them off from inside the engine compartment. The front one is under the access plate inside the ski locker.
3. Behind the emergency valves there were round red rotary valves called flow-rite valves.
4. After the flow-rites there are three rule aerator fill pumps that are plumbed directly into the tanks.
5. Attached to each tank is a different style aerator drain pump plumbed directly to the discharge port above the waterline.
6. There is also a vent/overflow plumbed through the side and of the boat. When the tanks are full water often pours out of both the overflow and the discharge port.

I think I got it right. The system probably evolved over a few years. They probably added the various components trying to make it work and ended up with a fairly complicated system prone to frequent failures.

The valves were the weakest link in the system followed closely by the fill pumps that didn't always prime. The scoops help prime the pumps but they also cause issues because they pressurize the full lines when the boat is at speed. If you are cruising over 30mph or pulling a slalom skier they can overpressure the flow rite valves filling your ballast tanks (no bueno for slalom skiing).

The factory had a silent recall on the flow-rite valves in 2006. They would replace them with a TH Marine ball valve. I had mine replaced in 2006 but they were so stiff after one winter my wife was not strong enough to turn the handle at the end of the cable. I ultimately broke the handle on one of the valves.

At this point I decided to re-engineer the entire system myself. The drains work fine from the factory. The aerator pumps also do better than impeller pumps on drains as they can be run dry for some me time without failing so I left the drain system intact. I pulled all of the fill side components between the emergency ball valves and tanks (had to pull the rear tanks to do this).

The new fill system is quite simple and effective.
1. From the emergency ball valves I ran a 3/4" hose up to an impeller pump mounted on the ski tow bat cross beam angle support.
2. From the impeller pump the hose goes to a 3/4 to 1" adapter that connects to a hose that previously attached to the old fill pump. The aerator pumps block the flow of water so all of the cable actuator valve hardware is eliminated. The aerator pumps draw a considerably higher electrical current so I installed a relay panel where the power from the factory fill switch trips the relay that supplies high current to the pump selected.

The solution is simple and effective. I think my system is actually more reliable than any other ballast system in existence for two reasons. One, impeller pumps burn up quickly when ran dry. My system has no mode where the impeller pumps run dry since they are not doing double duty as drain pumps. Second, impeller pumps don't always like to reverse. When you switch an impeller pump from fill to drain it has to overpower the rubber pump vanes to run in reverse. This stresses the pump, if you have the engine off and low voltage it may not have enough power to flip the vanes and can burn up the pump (like after sitting playing music then going to drain mode when voltages are low or just by hitting all three drain pumps at the same time overloading the electric circuit). I supply my pump relay panel with a heavy #6 wire 50 amp circuit. Each pump has an automatically resetting 20 amp circuit breaker instead of a simple fuse). These are the little things that make it drama free as it has been for the last 8 years.

Hit me directly at mikeskiw@gmail if you have any questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Toster]

Mikeski, Thanks for the very detailed post! The only thing is I think you meant the Impeller pumps when you said:

The aerator pumps draw a considerably higher electrical current...

I do like your system. You have used the correct pumps in the correct locations to do the best jobs with little risk of damaging them.

This last weekend I figured it had to be my port pump not working. I tore in into the whole system. I fought with 12 year old double hose clamped hoses trying to get them off the fittings! (PIA) I ended up just cutting one hose to get it to let go. I pulled the port tank, and got back to the pumps. Not a mild undertaking! I can tell you for 100% certainty I don't have the rotary flow-rite valves. (shrug) I did end up pulling out the port pump, and using some scrap hose to hook it up using the boat's wiring and pump water in/out of a 5 gal bucket. That worked. I took the aerator pump apart just to make sure no fins were broke or debris in there. It was 100% clean and looked good. I figured I would put it on the bench and hook up a 12v source. Again, I had a bucket to fill/suck from. I ran it for several minutes and it did not get hot or smell burnt like a bad motor would. I put it all back together with some new hose for the one I had to cut. I took it out to the lake, and I had no troubles filling all the tanks.

The only thing I can think of, is that the pump did not prime the other week when it would not fill. Which seems VERY odd to me because water is forced through the pickup scoop, past the emergency ball valve, through the pump and in to the tank. Especially like you mention when you are cruising around at speed. Those scoops would really generating a lot of force, and they eventually did fill my port tank. Which worked out good for us in the long run. So, how this system would not prime beyond me. It seems that if there is water in those pumps and water in the hoses you should be able to kick them on and they should move water.