LPG in SAN

[lbz99smp]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anyone has had expierience with running LPG in a SAN (PCM 330hp Exchalibur). With fuel prices constantly rising :x I'm thinking it may be an option. From what ive read its pretty popular in boats in the UK. Any info / expierences would be great. cheers.

[Mikeski]

RE: LPG in SAN

You lose about 15% of the power. I doubt you would be happy with the result. Let's say you run 5GPH and gas costs $3/gallon, your cost of operation is $15/hour. Let's say LPG can save you 20% to be generous then your savings would be about $3/hour. I would guess it would cost at least $1500 to convert to LPG so it would take at least 500 hours before you would save a penny. That's 500 hours at less than optimal performance. Don't forget that LPG is also very hard on rings and valves so your motor will not last as long either.

[Laptom]

RE: LPG in SAN

lbz88smp, where are you from?
It's indeed normal in Europe to run a boat on LPG. When using the latest systems (with LPG injectors along the normal gas injectors) you gain a bit power! Most ski boats use small portable LPG tanks (40ltr) which weight almost nothing when empty. You can still run your boat on gasoline (it's just a flip of a switch). With 40ltr (10-11Gal) you can run your boat for 2 hours so you need multiple tanks. With the latest systems the engine is much cleaner, you'll notice it from your oil. It stays in better condition then with the same amount of hours on a normal gasoline engine. LPG is 3 times cheaper then gasoline in Europe so you'll save money after approx 150hours. And the resale on boats with LPG is better so I think you'll save money after 75hours....
About the wear and tear of the engine... I've seen heavily loaded wakeboard boats (running on LPG) with more then 2500hours and still running without an engine rebuilt, and they have been using the old systems (using a condensor and vaporize the LPG with the air intake). The new systems are even better for the engine.

[lbz99smp]

Hey guys.

I' m in Australia, at the moment petrol is $1.20/litre & LPG is $0.50/litre.

This is what ive been able to find out about LPG
- may lose up to 10% power in some conversions.
- use approximately 30% more lpg than fuel for the same running time.
(i.e 100l petrol = 130l lpg)
- which equate to $0.65/litre.
- conversion would cost approx. $2000.

at the moment we probably use (4hrs) 70l @ $1.20 a week - so $84.
on lpg it would be 70l @ $0.65 - so $45.5

so i guess the conversion would pay for it self within a year.

Id like to see how other people have set up the tanks in a SAN.

I guess to run for 5-6 hrs we'd need 120-140l tank. (maybe a 70l tank in each rear locker.......?

cheers

[Laptom]

You right about the fuel consumption. It uses a bit more, but not 30% (more like 15%). But to me all your numbers seems to be on the save side and if you think that the conversion would be affordable. Go for it.
Normally we use standard fork lift truck tank from iron (30ltr and heavy). But the last 2 years we seen alot of special plastic tanks (40ltr) and are really light. They are round and you can easily but them on top of (wedge) ballast tanks. Mostly 1 on either side, but I assume you can get 2 of them on either side.

[Adrian]

Hi Laptom
Where do you refuell the LPG?
Does your club have an on-site bulk tank?

[Laptom]

I know some clubs that have an on-site refueling station. But I'm not at a club, even more confussion (sorry that I made the imply) I'm the only owner,more or less, in the Netherlands of a skiboat that doesn't drive on LPG.
Most people use the 40ltr tanks so they are easy to transport. You take them out after your session and refuel them simple at the normal gas station.

[Harry_Potter]

Re: RE: LPG in SAN

lbz88smp, where are you from?
It's indeed normal in Europe to run a boat on LPG. When using the latest systems (with LPG injectors along the normal gas injectors) you gain a bit power! Most ski boats use small portable LPG tanks (40ltr) which weight almost nothing when empty. You can still run your boat on gasoline (it's just a flip of a switch). With 40ltr (10-11Gal) you can run your boat for 2 hours so you need multiple tanks. With the latest systems the engine is much cleaner, you'll notice it from your oil. It stays in better condition then with the same amount of hours on a normal gasoline engine. LPG is 3 times cheaper then gasoline in Europe so you'll save money after approx 150hours. And the resale on boats with LPG is better so I think you'll save money after 75hours....
About the wear and tear of the engine... I've seen heavily loaded wakeboard boats (running on LPG) with more then 2500hours and still running without an engine rebuilt, and they have been using the old systems (using a condensor and vaporize the LPG with the air intake). The new systems are even better for the engine.

Hey Laptom, would be really interested in information regarding multi port gas systems. We still use the vaporizer and diaphram set up on the throttle body, and would love to see a multi port system with injectors that actually works good. We often get asked for this but cannot seem to do it competitively. With the old system when fitted to the ZR6 it is really difficult to fit a flame arrestor because of the fanbelt pully at the top which sits really close to the diaphram on the intake. Can you offer any ideas ????

[Adrian]

RE: Re: RE: LPG in SAN

I'm not a mechanic, but I'm thinking if cold liquid gas injected directly into hot cylinders could be harmful for the engine.
What do you think?

[Harry_Potter]

LPG in SAN

There is no liquid being injected, only vapour.

On most LPG systems on boats, the vapourizer is also connected to the water circuit on the engine and is warmed to prevent freezing.

Interestingly, lots of cars are now fitted with intercoolers to cool the air going into the engine, to achieve greater power.

Boats run great on LPG and the cost savings are huge if you are accumulating enough hours to justify the initial investment.

[EL_Coentos]

Hey Tom, i didn't know you know this much about LPG.
All the things you say are true but the plastic tanks are 26Ltr and not 40Ltr like you said.
I also run my boat on LPG and i'm really happy with it, it saves a lot of money,since the investment pays itself back after only one season.
I paid 3000,- Euros for the conversion and i can still run on gasoline if i want, but why would i want that??
Gasoline price here in Holland is about 1,45 euro a liter and LPG is about 0,50 cents a liter so running my boat on gasoline didn't even cross my mind.

[Adrian]

Coentos, do you have a throttle-body type system as harry P. said or a new injection system?
What engine?
I think I'll have to go to LPG as here in Spain gasoline is near as expensive as in Holland or UK.
The thing is the nearest gas station is far of my lake so the only way to go is with those plastic tanks you said. Do you know any web page to see them?
Thanks

[Laptom]

Ha Coen, great to see you on this board! How's your knee doing this far? And thanks for borrowing does fenders with Wakeland!

I don't know much about this, just pretending Yellow_Flash_Colorz: ....
I thought that I heard somebody say (Frank or Ben) that does plastic tanks where 40ltr. My bad, do you use these tanks or the normal fork lift tanks?

Here something about the gasoline prices:

[jon4pres]

I know this is a little off topic but looking at that chart makes me think.
If they can sell gas for 12 cents in Caracas and 68 cents in Kuwait. How much does it really cost to other countries? Where is the huge markup? Is it coming from Kuwait/Caracas to the other countries or what. That is a markup of over 5000% from Caracas to Amsterdam.

[bkhallpass]

On average, 60% of gasoline cost in Europe is for taxes that go to the
government. In England, the tax is 75%. These taxes are largely
driven by social and environmental policies. Not surprisingly, 40% of Europeans use diesel compared to 4% in the U.S.

On a per capita basis, Americans burn 8 times more gasoline per year than Europeans. This is not surprising as the U.S. is a mostly suburban,
commuter driven society. Policies are built around that lifestyle. Europe
tends to be a City or village society with less commuting, more walking,
bikes, etc. Policies are built around preserving that lifestyle.

Fixed costs in gasoline production include
Crude oil - risen from 22 to 70 per barrel in last couple of years.
Refining
Distribution, marketing, and profits.

Closer you are to the supply and refinineries, and fewer regulations, the lower the price will be.

BKH