Integrating Fatsac 750lb Bags Into 2004 SAN210TE

[SCNautique210SAN]

Hey Guys,

Been trying to weed through the threads for a setup that will integrate Fatsac Fly High bags in addition to the Factory rear ballast for surfing. Anyone done it, or seen any threads of someone doing it on a 2004-06? I do Not want to replace my internal ballast, I'd just like to eliminate the need to throw over a pump to fill and drain my additional bags.

I was thinking I'd run the overflow from the factory to the top fill of the bag, the other top fill of the bag to the overflow vent, and then the bottom drain of the bag to the fill on the top of the factory tank. This way, it will always fill up the factory tank first before the bag and will drain back into the factory tank to drain as one.

Any suggestions/thoughts??

[hondaprlud]

Try this one. Core-rider is still an active member on here.

http://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/fo...-2003-up-sante

[core-rider]

SCNautique, read my write up that hondaprlud posted above. You will not get a 750 or 400 sac to fill in that space if you have the wedge style hard tanks, but the Fly High wedge sacs fit well and is what I have used for years now. I'm actually about to remove my hard tanks and go 750 sacs. If you don't already have the wedge sacs I could sell you all my stuff with the hoses included. You would just need to hook them up and ride. Let me know if you're interested.

[SCNautique210SAN]

Core-rider, I already have two of the 750 sacs already (non wedge), and the wedge hard tanks. They won't fully fill but I've been using them for a few years now and they work great and fill and conform to the compartment. And, if I want I can place them inside the boat instead of in the back compartments. Just want to integrate them, going to use your write up for the plumbing, I think it will still work fine (thanks!). Going to add in the quick connects in addition though so that I can remove the bags and keep the functioning factory tanks if i want.

Main purpose was to integrate these in a way that I can still have the functioning gauges, not have to get rid of the factory tanks, and mainly.. not have to put a pump over the side to fill and drain my bags.

Thank's for that write up though, I will be using that configuration!

[faralta]

I recently did this upgrade on my ’06 210 SANTE, but if you do some reading you’ll find there is a risk of collapsing the hard tanks and bending the sending units for the gauges. Also, it’s difficult to fully empty the bags in this set-up and it requires some fiddling around and manually juggling the bags to get them fully emptied.

I tried the method of adding small tubing inside the bag fittings to allow vented air through the bag and hopefully prevent tank collapse, but still didn’t drain the bags very well.

Instead, I utilized a FlyHigh distribution manifold (originally designed for MC applications) to isolate the bag from the hard tank. Works great! I used one each side and since I also will upgrade the belly tank with the bow arrow bag I have a distribution manifold purchased for that upgrade this spring.

-The manifolds (one each side for the rear tanks), which is really just a two way valve, is mounted through the fiberglass rear seat support base. I have one on each side with the valve easily accessible from the space between the seat base and the interior sideboard. This allows all the plumbing to be out of site and in the area where the batteries are located.

-To fill, I usually fill hard tank first (though I can fill bag first if I want to) until overflowing, then simply switch valve and fill bag as desired or until overflow.
-To empty, I usually empty bag first until I hear a momentary change in the sound of the pump and then switch to the tank setting on the valve and empty that as usual.
-There is a one way check valve in the bag overflow line before it “t’s” into the stock overflow line, this prevents hard-tank overflow from entering the bag and allows maximum suction of the bag when emptying since it is not intake vented.

This is an awesome set-up. It costs a few bucks more in manifolds, hoses and fittings, but works amazingly well with no risk to hard tanks and fully empties the bags. I used quick-disco fittings almost everywhere to allow for easy removal if needed.

[SCNautique210SAN]

Hmm thanks for this info. So are you saying that there's more of a risk to collapse the tanks with the new plumbing that integrates the bags than there is having them separate and using an external pump to fill and empty?

I've been using this combination of sacs and factory tanks for almost 4 years now, just haven't integrated the full and drain with the factory pump system. I always fill the bags on top of the tanks after the factory tanks are already completely full to help prevent collapse. This system will do the same.

I do think that since the overflow will be on the bag instead of the tank, that this might pressurize the factory tank more since it won't have any place to vent but I don't know that it'll be too much for it to handle... I'll look into those manifolds though!

[nukemustang]

Hmm thanks for this info. So are you saying that there's more of a risk to collapse the tanks with the new plumbing that integrates the bags than there is having them separate and using an external pump to fill and empty?

I've been using this combination of sacs and factory tanks for almost 4 years now, just haven't integrated the full and drain with the factory pump system. I always fill the bags on top of the tanks after the factory tanks are already completely full to help prevent collapse. This system will do the same.

I do think that since the overflow will be on the bag instead of the tank, that this might pressurize the factory tank more since it won't have any place to vent but I don't know that it'll be too much for it to handle... I'll look into those manifolds though!

I think the risk is if the hard tank empties first, but has the full weight of whatever bag that did not "automatically" empty, still on top of the hardtank damaging the hard tank below it. When you manually fill it, it is hard tank->soft bag fill, and then empty soft bag-> hard tank, this always has the water in the hard tank help support the weight of the bag on top.

As for pressurizing, it will slightly, but eventually the plumbing should equalize through the vent so there is just the pressure from the fluid height above the tank. This does not account for the weight stresses to the hard tank.

[SCNautique210SAN]

Good point. I will have to see how well the bag will empty with this setup. The other thread says it drains well enough. But definitely good point and will watch for it and make changes if needed.

[faralta]

I don't think it's the weight of the full bag on top of the hard tank, either full or empty, that causes collapse or maybe we should call it inward bending of the tank walls. Actually, it's the force of the suction from the pump sucking the tank walls inward because the soft bag, if plumbed inline with hard tank, effectively seals the vent air from entering the hard tank when the bag sort of fold upon itself when close to empty. You could create the same inward bending by plugging the vent hole while emptying the system.

[nukemustang]

It would be interesting to hook a vacuum gage to a spare tank and see what it would take to bow the tank. There are all kinds of surplus tanks on Nautiqueparts.com and heck, with all the conversion from hard to soft bags, I am sure some one has one laying around.

[faralta]

thought this may help...

[SCNautique210SAN]

@faralta that image didn't load

[faralta]

Sorry, looks like this works for pics. I tried a pdf of my diagram, but jpeg seems to work better. Anyway, this is the manifold and my plumbing diagram:

[Nzblacky]

Core-rider, can you let me know how you plumbed in the wedge sacs or a link if you have already posted.
Cheers

[core-rider]

Here you go Nzblacky... This is the basic plumbing I have.