Piggyback Kit from Wakemakers will fill but not empty.

[Evening Shade]

Hey guys I attached a pic of the piggyback kit I purchased from Wakemakers. I have installed it and the sacks fill appropriately, but they won't empty. You can see a one way check valve in the "fill" hose. I don't understand why they would put a one way check valve in this location. This valve allows the sack to fill, but not empty. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remedy this problem without completely taking the kit apart and reassembling it?

[theskunk]

I spoke to them about this, and also took the plunge. They guaranteed that the gravity from the ballast would allow the bag to drain correctly, which did *not* happen. The other challenge that I've now got is that when the 540 sack fills up, it starts a siphon out of the side of the boat. Once I've stopped the siphon, it starts again when water gets up to the level of the empty port on the side of the boat.

Personally, I think they need to do something just a little different here, but I don't think they are going to like my solution, which is basically build a bag that has the ports for input and output next to each other, and then have an internal structure to ensure that the bag doesn't collapse in that general area.

Let me guess - you just purchased it recently, and it was about 115.00?

[Evening Shade]

Yes I did just recently purchase mine. I don't remember how much each kit costs, but I think it was less than $115. I will have to check my invoice which is at home. I think the Fly High kit is $115. I got the Straight Line 600# Sumo Sacks and the piggyback kit which they make in house at Wakemakers. I went this route at the salesperson's recommendation because he said it would be cheaper and the 600# Sumo Sacks would fit in my rear lockers better than the 750# Fly High Fat Sacs that I was planning on buying.

This new piggyback kit is different than the older ones. The new kit has a bypass of sorts that allows air to enter once the sacks are empty so that your pumps don't collapse your hard tanks from the vaccuum they create. This can result in a bent sending unit which will cause your gauge to read 1/4-1/2 full even when the tanks are empty.

My kits came assembled incorrectly. The "Fill/Drain" hose and the "Vent" hoses were labeled incorrectly and the 2 one way check valves were oriented in the wrong direction as best I can tell. When I first installed the kit the sacks would fill and drain properly, but air would not vent out of the sack as it filled because there was a one way valve in the vent hose that was oriented in the wrong direction and wouldn't let air escape. So I took my kit apart and reassembled it just like the above pic I got from Wakemakers. The problem now is the one way check valve in the "fill/drain" hose will only let water in the sack, but won't let it drain because after all it is a one way valve. I think this valve in the fill/drain hose just needs to be eliminated, but I'm not positive. I'm going to call Spencer at Wakemakers later today. If I find anything out I will post it.

[theskunk]

I just spoke to Spencer - it sounds like we may need some upgraded check-valves that act more like a pressure relief valve than an actual blocker - He's mailing me two of them to try out next weekend, great customer service! They really want to get this right.

I'm going to draw up a diagram of how it actually should be, send it to Spencer, and get his buy in. I'm using a Straight Line 540 in the rear locker and a 350 in the ski locker. I'll take pictures once I get mine working. He seemed to know exactly what I was talking about and offered a quick solution.

[swatguy]

The siphoning happens on the overflow vent line due to gravity. When your bag is full gravity is wanting that over flow to drain out the vent line because the top
of the sac is above the overflow port out the side of the boat. Simple fix is a quick ball in the vent line. So when the bag gets full and starts to spew you just close the ball valve and siphoning is eliminated. Open ball valve back up when you want to empty. Yes it's kind of annoying,but it's really the simplest solution.

[faralta]

This works perfectly, drains bag dry. Since hard tank is isolated from bag, no chance of collapsing tank when emptying.

[Evening Shade]

I just spoke to Spencer at Wakemakers again and after much discussion we determined that my piggyback kit was put together wrong when it was assembled. Spencer is sending me 2 new kits to remedy the problem. On the customer service!

[faralta]

It will still have trouble draining. The best solution is to add the manifold valve and isolate each tank and bag through the use of the valve.

[Evening Shade]

Skunk,

It sounds like you and I are having slightly different issues. My problem arose because my kit was assembled incorrectly at Wakemakers. Then in order to try to figure the problem out, Spencer sent me the diagram in the OP. So I took my kit apart an reassembled it the way the diagram shows. Spencer and I figured out that the diagram I included in the OP is labeled incorrectly. So rather than trying to sort it out any further, Spencer just said let me send you 2 brand new kits and you keep the old ones for spare parts.

[theskunk]

Can't beat that customer service! And yes, it sounds like we have slightly different issues. Furthermore, I think I've got mine *just about* sorted out. Now I get to sort out my perfectpass issues...

[bakerdr27]

Skunk,

It sounds like you and I are having slightly different issues. My problem arose because my kit was assembled incorrectly at Wakemakers. Then in order to try to figure the problem out, Spencer sent me the diagram in the OP. So I took my kit apart an reassembled it the way the diagram shows. Spencer and I figured out that the diagram I included in the OP is labeled incorrectly. So rather than trying to sort it out any further, Spencer just said let me send you 2 brand new kits and you keep the old ones for spare parts.

Hi Evening Shade/Skunk,

I see that this seems to be a recent posting & I have also just received the piggyback kit. Mine fills and drains, but the overflow/vent line does not seem to be working. Bag fills until it is about to burst and drains like it will flatten the hard tank. Can you confirm the location of the one way valves (should they be exactly like the picture at the beginning of this thread? or was that the incorrect configuration?). Are the one way valves faulty?

[Evening Shade]

Baker,

The pic at the beginning of the thread is labeled incorrectly. I got that pic directly from Wakemakers. After a couple discussions, Spencer from Wakemakers and I figured out that the diagram is labeled incorrectly. I printed that pic from my computer and re-labeled it correctly for my reference. I would post my corrected pic, but I don't have a scanner. Basically, the 4 connections are labeled opposite how they should be. In other words, "fill to bottom port of bag" should say "overflow from top port of bag" and vice versa. Like wise, the connection that says "vent through hull" should say "overflow from hard tank" and vice versa. It was a very confusing for me at first because my kits were also assembled incorrectly at Wakemakers, which is why I printed the pic and labeled it correctly to wrap my head around how it should work.

I got everything installed correctly now and it is working, but I'm having the same problem you are having. As the bag fills it gets VERY tight with air that seemingly wont escape out the vent line. I called Spencer about this and he said it was normal for the bag to get tight with air especially the first several times you use the kit. According to him, with time, the one way check valves will begin to "break-in" and start opening with less pressure and allow the air to vent more freely. I haven't had time to test this to see if it will be the case or not. It worries me about how tight the bags get with air though. I'm concerned about them potentially rubbing against a sharp edge or point and getting a hole. If the air venting issue doesn't improve with time like Spencer said it would I may just remove the one way valve on the vent side.

[ditchdoc7]

Shade, mine does not have the check valve and I haven't had an issue with it. I temporally move the starboard bag over to the port side and (doubled) piggy-backed it to the to the existing port side bag to test for surfing.... so far it works great!. hard tank fills first, then overflows to the first sac, then overflows to the additional sac. And on draining, all sacs empty with just a little (very little residual) water left in both sacs....

[theskunk]

I'll draw up how I have mine. Took it out for the first time today and everything worked perfectly. I'll get it to you tomorrow.


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[Evening Shade]

Ditchdoc,

I like the idea of doubling up your sacks on one side for surfing. Where did you put the second sack? There is no way 2 sacks would fit in one compartment on my boat.