REALLY need assistance with 04 SAN no start

[emjayem]

I have an 04 SANTE, about 550 hours, owned it for 3 years, new plugs then, all other maint up to date, never had any drive-ability, rough running, hesitation, etc before now.

On the lake sunday going through a slow zone, had been out for maybe an hour, engine stalled with no hiccup or any warning. Tried restarting, cranks fine, still no start. Checked the obvious, fuel level per gauge, just filled up 2 days prior, should be plenty, lanyard, loose connections, breakers, fuses, all ok. Went as far as pulling out safety switch and jumped it together. Could clearly smell fuel, both pumps turning on. Pulled plug wires for visual, pulled out one plug, looked fine, some fuel soak tho. cranked at WOT to clear flood, cranked and checked for spark, all ok. No fuel psi gauge at the moment, but some sprayed up when pushing the test port valve, will check actual psi tomorrow. Pulled off dizzy cap and it was very fuzzy and rotor end was pretty black so I used a wire brush to clean them up while stranded, still nothing. Replaced cap and rotor today, no change.... was really hoping that was it.

Dinked around with checking voltages at pumps, tried checking injector pulse, with test light and it stayed on solid on both pins... so no pulse. Cranking voltage ok. Unplugged pretty much every connector to check for the green, all look ok. Now when i crank it I get a MAP sensor fault message in the dash display. Removed that for visual, looks fine i guess.
What am I missing???!!

[emjayem]

UPDATE: Fuel psi is good, 55psi @rail and more than 15psi at FCC, both hold steady while cranking. Used a spark tester at plug end and it will not jump the gap. Wont jump it at the coil wire either but if i hold the wire close to ground it does spark. Fuel smell is there but pretty minimal, sure seems like I have no injector pulse, I have available voltage on both terrminals all the time, wish i had a noid light, not sure if test light can check that accurately. Swapped relays around and double checked voltages while cranking and lanyard switch operation. Still have the dash beeping at me and saying MAP sensor, I cant imagine that causing a no start tho. I suppose ill go check compression to rule that out (hopefully) Arrghh

[t.franscioni]

Tough one... You seem to have fuel, spark and a cranking motor.... PCM didn't install that fancy diagnostic equipment for nothing. MAP sensor isn't too expensive I'd try swapping it out if you can verify the wires to it and connector terminal look to be in good shape.... But you are correct typically a faulty map doesn't cause a no start situation but maybe the computers in these marine engines are programmed not to run in event of map fault?

[emjayem]

Yeah that is the unknown, seems dang near impossible to find any legit service information on this boat/motor. Can't even find a wiring diagram for the engine harness let alone testing procedures and values for what should be seen at the various sensors.
I talked to a GM guy and he says that certain GM engines can be picky enough to not start with 50-55psi when 58psi is required.... sounds unlikely, can't imagine 3psi would make a diff.

[emjayem]

anyone know the actual fuel psi spec on the rail?

edit: 49-54 psi @ idle and 57-62 psi @ WOT

[emjayem]

Found this in the manual; http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...(L510005P).pdf

• A defective MAP sensor may cause a no start or a
start and stall condition.

[lvethelake]

Check your ground wires

[emjayem]

Checking all of the grounds from each sensor ground to engine ground tested good staticly, 0.02 ohms or so and 0.03V drop

Any chance anyone with the same engine would ohm out their MAP sensor for me so I can compare it to what I found on mine? I have nothing to compare it to and cannot seem to find this part anywhere, also having a tough time finding a cross over part number.

[lvethelake]

Did you check the wires to see if thet where loose.

[emjayem]

I did some wiggling, and now im all the sudden having fuel pump relay issues. Pumps wouldnt turn on, disconnect relay and plug back in and pumps work. While monitoring the FCC fuel test port which i thought was low psi, i noticed the needle bouncing A LOT from like 20 -50 psi while cranking.

I have read about some people having ground issues, so i guess ill look more into that, and maybe just start over completely....

[emjayem]

Fixed! That whole fuel pump relay issue was so weird, have not had a problem with it since. Rechecked spark and confirmed it jumping plug gap, noticed that it was not real bright tho, looked brighter the other day when checking, but it was starting to get dark out.... Then rechecked with a spark tester and it did not jump the gap there, which I noted the first time i checked it, but for some dumb reason i didnt think anything of it, though it was an old broken one. So just for fun i checked the spark tester on my truck, low and behold it jumped the gap no problem. Started rechecking plug wires again and kept coming back to the coil wire measuring about 9000 ohms, spec in manual says 10,000 ohms max. Other wires were from 800 to 1500 ohms varying with length. Tried checking spark at the coil wire and it still seemed weak. Checked primary coil resistance of coil, 0.5 ohms, which is about right, checked secondary coil and found 5600 ohms, which actually is a bit low according to general specs. Went to Oreilly auto parts with multi meter in hand and started looking for a coil that would "work". first got a set of plug wires for an old 350 and checked resistance of coil wire, 1400 ohms. Way less than the 8000 on mine let alone the 10k the manual says is good... Then ended up finding the exact coil as the one in the boat, checked it and found secondary coil resistance at 7500ohms which is more in line with general specs. Put the wire only in and tried starting, no change, put coil in and it fired right up.

So my conclusion is that with the way the cap and rotor looked with all of the corrosion, it created extra work for the coil wire and coil itself, caused wire to have excessive resistance which in turn ended up killing the coil.

BWD coil E208 at oreillys is an exact fit to replace the coil separately from the ignition module and a lot cheaper. I checked the wiring diagram on the vehicle it was for and it was the exact drawing as in the PCM man.

I was also able to make my own code flasher and clearing tool using a few wires, a dash bulb, and switch.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...29389765,d.eWE