Surge Brakes Question/Problem

[patoloco]

I have an '02 Ram-lin tandem axle trailer with surge drum brakes on the front wheels. Before I head to the trailer shop, thought I might see if anyone has some insight.

Brakes stopped working a few weeks ago, it took a while to notice since I have a 3/4 ton truck and drive pretty gently with the boat. After a couple of times getting pushed around, and increased clunking, I checked the fluid and it was empty. There are no noticable leak spots on the trailer.

I went ahead and refilled with new fluid, and bled the lines and tried it out both in the garage and on the road.

The "clunk" is reduced. When I spin the tires by hand and engage the brakes with a screwdriver, I hear them engage and the wheel stops spinning immediatly...but with the brakes engaged I can turn the wheel by hand....which explains why they felt like they were only kind of working on the road test. Before all this they worked fantastic, and would actually lock up only on really hard stops.

1.) Do I need to re-bleed the lines?
2.) What else could I check?
3.) New actuator? New brakes? Cost?

thanks!

[Rick]

RE: Surge Brakes Question/Problem

It sounds like there is still some air in the lines. I would power bleed them and then adjust them There is a great article in trailer boat Magazine this month on your brakes. Good Luck

[JAG]

RE: Surge Brakes Question/Problem

Did you pull the wheels off and inspect behind the rubber boots on the pistons. The fluid went somewhere! Also check for leaks in the brake line. It can rust over a period of time and develop pinhole leaks.
Did you adjust the brakes before bleeding? For bleeding the brakes I use the ball & hitch from the receiver. It provides plenty of leverage. If you're not pressure bleeding you need to be very carefull to keep the resv. full as it will drain fast and suck in air making any attempts at bleeding futile. While you're at it I would recommend draining the entire system of the old alcohol based fluid and flush it out and replace with a silicone based brake fluid. The silicone brake fluid does not absorb water and does not have the corrosive affect that regular fluid has on the system and on trailer paint. I did mine 4 years ago and the fluid today looks just as clear as when I first put it in. It's also great for rubber seals.

[patoloco]

Thanks for the tips.. I'll start with re-bleeding the lines.

Jag -

I did not pull the wheel off and inspect, I may do that tonight and see where some leaks might be....I did notice a little blackness around the actuator itself, I'll look closer there. the lines are in the trailer tubing, so hard to inspect.

I did not adjust the brakes before/after bleeding. I made an assumption that if they wroked well before, they should be adjusted correctly as long as I bleed it right...perhaps a bad assumption.

I used a pressure pump device to bleed the brakes since I was doing it by myself, but made sure the resevoir was always full

I used a screwdriver to work the actuator for garage testing, seemed to work well.


I did have to dip the trailer pretty deep at a couple of shallow ramps, could that have somehow forced water into the system?

[DavidF]

As the brake shoes wear, the fluid volume in the brake cylinders increase. If the shoes are almost used up, then I suppose the reservoir in the master cylinder could be mostly empty. So, you should look for leaks to be sure. Then you should inspect and replace the shoes as necessary. Then you must adjust the star wheel at each brake so that the shoes just (and I mean just) slightly drake on the drum. Then, bleed the system and you are good to go.

Also, make sure the shoes and drums are not fluid/grease contaminated.

Some people, including myself find it much cheaper and easier to simply replace the entire brake system, including back plate, as a unit when the brakes are worn out or leaking. I suggest the free backing type and you should be able to find the entire assembly for about $85/side. You will need a RH and LH.

[pdigel]

I too have a trailer brake problem. Several years ago to store my trailer ('93 ski nautique) I turned the tongue of the trailer up to have room to store it. The fluid leaked out and things have never been the same since. I don't have the capability mechanically to do it myself but I do have a competent local mechanic that can do it. When he starts to get into the job who should he call for parts or technical questions? Thanks in advance from a first poster!

[JAG]

Any boat/utility trailer dealer can get you the parts. Parts are also available online. The system is not complicated and any good mechanic should have no problem tackling any repairs. I agree with DavidF that in some cases it's easier just to replace the entire backing plate/brake assembly. The best place for technical questions is right here. Good luck.

[Miljack]

I would caution against the silicone brake fluid. In theory a great idea, however, you WILL get water in the hydraulic system, and it has to go somewhere. With the silicone fluid the water won't be absorbed in the brake fluid, good right? NO, the water will find the low spot in your hydraulic system, and begin rusting out that spot!
Stick with DOT 3 or 4, and bleed the system regularly.

I just went through this whole thing with my Ramlin, had to replace the wheel cylinders as they were rusted solid, and I was able to rebuild the actuator master cylinder.

[JAG]

Well, so far the components in the system using silicone fluid has by far outlasted all others since Ive owned the boat going on 16 years now. I still inspect the entire system and and flush out the hyrdaulics every year or two regardless of type of fluid used.

[patoloco]

Well, it was air still in the lines. I originally bled using the pressure pump device I bought, specifically for that reason. It could have been operator error, but I don't see how.

Bled them the regular way today with a friend pushing the actuator, then adjusted...seems to work well now, I'll be on the watch for leaks.