'99 Super Sport 210 converstion to wakesurf boat - propeller and ballast issues

[Mac81]

Hello Guys,

I would really appreciate some help.

I know there have been a lot of threads, but many of them are old, and maybe some new ideas has arised.

I am trying to convert my '99 Super Sport 210 to wakesurf boat.



So:
- I bought a boat last year (change from old Mastercraft Prostar)
- I refreshed it
- I installed waketower, and bought 2x 400kg ballast bags.


I did some testing last year:
- with 2x400kg (ca. 2 x 900lbs)
- with home made wake shaper

Result: I could not wakesurf

Either boat could not reach speed I needed with full load or wake was to small with lower ballast weight.

My ideas for 2019:
1) put additional 350kg in centre locker to balance boat better (last year it had very heavy rear and was very un-ballanced).
2) change propeller

My questions for advice:

1) will this additional 350kg in centre locker be enough, or a front ballast is a must ?
2) what propeller should I install:
- ACME 1578 (13,5" x 14,25") - this is WAKEMAKERS website reccomendation for "heavy weighted"
- ACME 420 (13,0" x 12,50") - this is ACME website reccomendation for "max power/torque"
- ACME 1235 (14,5" x 14,25") - I found threads here, that reccomend this

All those are completely different spec propeler, and I am confused.

Could you help?

[brit_hunsicker]

First things first, the Acme 1235 is a left hand prop and you need a right hand prop. Easy way to tell is if it’s an even or odd number. Even numbers are right hand. Odd numbers are left hand. I do mainly wake boarding and went with Acme 1616 which was recommended by Acme directly. It is 14” diameter x 13.75” pitch. 14” was the biggest I could go on my boat and still have 3/4” clearance to the gelcoat. I love that prop. If I were you, I’d call Acme and talk to Greg. He can sugggest several different props that would fit your needs. He recommended 1 other prop to me that would have fit your style more with a heavily weighted boat, but I cannot for the life of me remember what prop that was. I lined it out on an old prop thread on this site but I can’t find it. I am leaning toward the 1578 you listed above, that sounds right. I would for sure measure to see what you can clear. If you can clear a 14” like me, I’d go with something in the 14s. Now as far as ballast goes...that bag in the front locker will help tremendously. You will see a noticeable difference in wake shape once you add that. I like to have Lead Wake bags in my boat to be able to move around and compensate for people. Most of the time I keep 150 lbs in the nose under the seat. I have 650s in the rear and a 380 in the center locker. Also 500 lbs of lead scattered throughout the boat. I am able to get a really nice surf wave with evenly weighted boat and a homemade shaper. I have an 01 210 so pretty much identical to your setup. If you haven’t already, I would plan on installing prefect pass. It will make your wave more consistent and not make driving such a dreaded task.

[Rusty Barras]

I have a 2001 SAN 210. I get a strong (but small) pocket to surf with using: 750 rears full, 600# wakemakers locker bag full, and 250# bow bag full. i drop some if i i have passengers. i use a mission delta shaper, 11mph.

installing surf tabs this winter though, so more to come

[Mac81]

Wow! Thanks for such a detailed answer!
I really appreciate!

Very important point - I will measure my clearance to be on a safe side. But I understand (as we have same boats), that I also have 3/4" on 14" propeler.
Aso I will contact ACME as you suggest.

As to Leade Wake bags - they are not available in Europe, and to shipp lead from USA will cost too much. But maybe I will custom make it here, I check.

I see your knowledge is huge, and we have same boats. Maybe you know:
1) how big bag I can put in centre locker? Which should I buy?
2) does any of those bow bags fit under front seats of our boat? https://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard...n_in_boat=1400

I had a look at PerfectPass just now. 1200usd without shipping to EU and installation. Not small amount. Are there any other solutions?

[Mac81]

I have a 2001 SAN 210. I get a strong (but small) pocket to surf with using: 750 rears full, 600# wakemakers locker bag full, and 250# bow bag full. i drop some if i i have passengers. i use a mission delta shaper, 11mph.

installing surf tabs this winter though, so more to come

Thanks for sharing this!
So I must definetly buy a bow bag! Which one you have?

And what are "surf tabs" ?

[Rusty Barras]

The bow is a sumo 500 sac. Only fills about half way though

[Rusty Barras]

Go surf assist tabs. The expensive route

[hal2814]

I have a 95 Super Sport that I’m surfing with. I went with the Acme 1234 and highly recommend it. From what I gather, the shaft is a little shorter on later (early 2000s) 210s so that diameter doesn’t work. There’s plenty of space for the 1234 under my boat. I’ve attached a pic of it installed. It’s amazing. It’s top speed is only about 37ish but it pulls 2000lbs of ballast like it’s not even there.

Other than that, I run 800lb sacks on either side of the engine, 400lbs in the ski locker and about another 200lbs under the playpen. I run them full and use a homemade surf wedge. I can get a better wave by listing the boat a little in addition to the wedge but my boat is a mix of regular and goofy riders so it’s not worth the effort. Another thing I found out is that I need deeper water to surf than I do to wakeboard. My regular wakeboarding spot is 14’’ deep. That’s not deep enough for a surf wave for whatever reason. I need about 20’’ of water or more to get a decent wave. Also, even after all of this the wave is easily surfable for me (6’’2”” 220lb guy) but nowhere near as good as a modern surf boat.

[brit_hunsicker]

Wow! Thanks for such a detailed answer!
I really appreciate!

Very important point - I will measure my clearance to be on a safe side. But I understand (as we have same boats), that I also have 3/4" on 14" propeler.
Aso I will contact ACME as you suggest.

As to Leade Wake bags - they are not available in Europe, and to shipp lead from USA will cost too much. But maybe I will custom make it here, I check.

I see your knowledge is huge, and we have same boats. Maybe you know:
1) how big bag I can put in centre locker? Which should I buy?
2) does any of those bow bags fit under front seats of our boat? https://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard...n_in_boat=1400

I had a look at PerfectPass just now. 1200usd without shipping to EU and installation. Not small amount. Are there any other solutions?

I have a 380# bag in my center locker and there about a foot of room to spare length wise. Height and width it is perfect. I’ve heard of people putting over 500# in there center locker though, which I don’t see how they could get that much in there. You just need to measure your compartment and then look on wakemakers at bag dimensions.

If you are interested in the bag that fits under the front seats, I have a brand new bag that has only been used twice I would sell you. I needed the extra weight up front but to me it was more of a pain to deal with than lead weights. I can send you some pictures of the bag if you’d like. It’s just hanging up in my garage.


Sent from my iPhone using PLT Nautique

[Mac81]

Go surf assist tabs. The expensive route

Ok, I checked what is this. Thanks for sharing idea.
Looks awesome, but 4000$ is too much for me.

From curiosity - what Is your reason of buying this?
I am sure huge benefit is ease of use. But If we consider only wake size, do you think it worth such an investment?

[Rusty Barras]

I have a lot of novice guests come out and can't surf the wave as is. Plus it's a lot of wear on my boat. 4k is nothing when compared to a boat upgrade. I want our ride sessions to be enjoyable and not kill my fuel and engine. This system ( in theory) let's the hull ride higher (less fuel and wear), makes a bigger pocket and sets the pocket further back.. most importantly... I get my steering back! I can only turn one way with the shaper, and it's been scary at times trying to retrieve a rider when the river is a little busy.

[Mac81]

I have a 95 Super Sport that I’m surfing with. I went with the Acme 1234 and highly recommend it. From what I gather, the shaft is a little shorter on later (early 2000s) 210s so that diameter doesn’t work. There’s plenty of space for the 1234 under my boat. I’ve attached a pic of it installed. It’s amazing. It’s top speed is only about 37ish but it pulls 2000lbs of ballast like it’s not even there.

Other than that, I run 800lb sacks on either side of the engine, 400lbs in the ski locker and about another 200lbs under the playpen. I run them full and use a homemade surf wedge. I can get a better wave by listing the boat a little in addition to the wedge but my boat is a mix of regular and goofy riders so it’s not worth the effort. Another thing I found out is that I need deeper water to surf than I do to wakeboard. My regular wakeboarding spot is 14’’ deep. That’s not deep enough for a surf wave for whatever reason. I need about 20’’ of water or more to get a decent wave. Also, even after all of this the wave is easily surfable for me (6’’2”” 220lb guy) but nowhere near as good as a modern surf boat.

Thank you for sharing this!
On hand side - very valuable, on another - ending is quite sad .
I knew, that probably you can not get what you achieve on 2xheavier boat with 500hp, but there was a little hope that you can get somwhere near

P.S. Is 400lbs maximum what can can be put in center ski lock? Or is it just your decision. Now I want to buy bag, and must decide for the size.
P.S.2. What is "playpen" ? Tried to google it, but still not sure.

[brit_hunsicker]

The playpen is what they called the front bow when it’s not a walkthrough but still has open bow.


Sent from my iPad using PLT Nautique

[Mac81]

I have a lot of novice guests come out and can't surf the wave as is. Plus it's a lot of wear on my boat. 4k is nothing when compared to a boat upgrade. I want our ride sessions to be enjoyable and not kill my fuel and engine. This system ( in theory) let's the hull ride higher (less fuel and wear), makes a bigger pocket and sets the pocket further back.. most importantly... I get my steering back! I can only turn one way with the shaper, and it's been scary at times trying to retrieve a rider when the river is a little busy.

You inspired me to make automated system! Maybe I coukd arrange making it.

Did you do some extensive research wchich gives best results in wake size?

1. Tabs , like Mastercraft
2.Gate , like Malibu
3. Plates, like Nautique


Price would be more less same in all cases.

[Rusty Barras]

I heard the plates work great on these hulls to get a good wake. Someone was making add on kits for the latter hulls, but not ours. You can probably find him on here. That may be a good starting point.

I read another post awhile back where someone tried to make a tab systems, but it didn't generate a good wave. Lots of time and efforts for little results. I think on the tabs you can't just use any regular trim tab, it had to be one like to the GSA.

Gates I think only work well on square transoms.

I'd vote plate.