Slipping or cavitation? I hate that my first post is a Maintenance one....

[liquiddreams]

First post and I hate that it is in the Maintenance section. I have been lurking for a while and I have already learned a lot from you all however I have a issue...

Took my (new to me) 2012 Super Air Nautique TE out and started having some slipping feeling. It has ran perfect for the last 4 weeks of ownership. Today I had a kid fall off of a tube and made a sharp turn to turn around to get him. In the turn I felt a feeling like cavitation (RPM went up when this happened). It only happened for a second and then I backed off to pick up the child. Once the child was back on the tube we went to take off and I felt it again while accelerating to plane the tube off. I backed completely off and even put it in reverse. However, when we went to pull off again it happened like three more times. At this point I backed off and pulled everything in. Then creeped back to the dock. Once there I checked the V-Drive fluid (PCM Power Plus 1.48 ratio) and it was a milky yellow color (see attached picture, BTW this is another members picture but it is the same color). It uses the SHC 50 fluid per the manual and i am wondering if that is normal. It does not seem to be to high or low, because it is right on the line. From my research, I believe this year they have the V-Drive and transmission in one so when I check the fluid it is checking the fluid in both (correct me if I am wrong).

I have researched the forum and will be pulling it out tomorrow to check the prop to see if that could be what is causing the issue. However, I instantly jumped to transmission slipping when I got back to the dock. The weird part to me is that it has ran fine, but then all of a sudden in a sharp turn it started happening. Any insight or thoughts are appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Jonny Quest]

Milky trans or V-drive oil is not good. The milky appearance typically comes from water that has been somewhat emulsified with the oil. If it was my boat, I would change out the milky fluid with new oil. I would also inspect the trans cooler as that is the likely spot where water gets into the fluid. Disclaimer—I don’t have much experience with your particular transmission so I don’t know what virgin SHC 50 looks like.

JQ

[bturner]

I'm blaming the tube. Ski boats hate tubes. There's a post on the MC forum of a boat that caught fire pulling a tube so there you go....

Joking aside foaming and discoloration are typical signs for water intrusion. It's quite possible it's coming from the cooler but more likely from a seal in the trans. If you're slipping now chances are good the trans will need a rebuild.

Jonny has a good "last chance" recommendation to closely inspect the cooler and change out the fluid which could possibly fix the slipping but any change in the fluid color or consistency from there would be a glaring indication of water intrusion. Unfortunately once you get to a slipping situation the damage is typically done.

If this were a saltwater boat I'd put good odds on the trans cooler as a possible source and would suggest pulling it and taking it to a radiator shop to be pressure tested. That said I really haven't seen any of these fail on fresh water boats especially ones as new as yours.

IF you do end up having to pull the trans have the shop change the flex plate while it's apart. These go bad as well and require the same labor to change.

Best of luck with this one.

[liquiddreams]

Thanks for the replies. I am off to pull it out and start looking it over. Does anyone know if this transmission and v-drive are one unit? The Nautique owners manual looks like it is, but the PCM manual looks like it isn't. Just curious, bit I guess I will find out soon enough.

[liquiddreams]

Well, I found out it is two units once I got down there. Also found that the transmission was empty. Emptied completely in the bilge overnight. Going to get it out of the water now. Any solid thoughts on just a seal or a rebuild at this point? I am very mechanically inclined, but have never worked on these types of drives.

[jkallen21]

Just from a general troubleshooting (and perhaps wishful thinking) point of view, I Would DEFINITELY find the leaking seal, repair it, and refill the oil. Before going for a ride, a sacrificed chicken on the bow of the boat might be in order just for good measure.
But who knows, you may get lucky. After that, I’d look into rebuild.
Incidentally, I read your post last night and actually thought about it quite a bit today because I’ve had cavitation in the past. In my experience, cavitation occurs in a sharp turn, under just the right conditions (windy, choppy, ballasts, people in the boat, etc). I have never experienced it in a straightaway pull. I’m hating this for you. They really are great boats.
I’d also give nautique a call and ask for tech support. I have found them to be a wealth a free information. I *think* the guy was Larry that helped me so much. They might know where to start looking for a leaking seal.
Another trick that you might be able to use is to drain the bilge and lay cardboard under as much of the vdrive area as you can. Fill the tranny back up and see if it might drip on the cardboard after a while. I’ve used that for engine oil leaks in the boat but it might help here too.

[SatherG230]

Sorry I did not see your post sooner...I could have confirmed that they are two seperate units. As others have indicated, any milky-looking oil is bad and I do have a question...Your original post said that the V-drive fluid is a milky-yellow color. Is it the V-drive or the transmission that emptied itself into the bilge?

[liquiddreams]

Just from a general troubleshooting (and perhaps wishful thinking) point of view, I Would DEFINITELY find the leaking seal, repair it, and refill the oil. Before going for a ride, a sacrificed chicken on the bow of the boat might be in order just for good measure.
But who knows, you may get lucky. After that, I’d look into rebuild.
Incidentally, I read your post last night and actually thought about it quite a bit today because I’ve had cavitation in the past. In my experience, cavitation occurs in a sharp turn, under just the right conditions (windy, choppy, ballasts, people in the boat, etc). I have never experienced it in a straightaway pull. I’m hating this for you. They really are great boats.
I’d also give nautique a call and ask for tech support. I have found them to be a wealth a free information. I *think* the guy was Larry that helped me so much. They might know where to start looking for a leaking seal.
Another trick that you might be able to use is to drain the bilge and lay cardboard under as much of the vdrive area as you can. Fill the tranny back up and see if it might drip on the cardboard after a while. I’ve used that for engine oil leaks in the boat but it might help here too.

Thanks for the response. I pretty much did exactly what you said last night before I saw your post this morning. I hauled it out and cleaned the bilge. Once clean I laid clean paper towels underneath it (didn't think about cardboard) and will be going back Tuesday to check and see what I find. If the leak is not to major I might try and run it this weekend to see if it still slips and how fast the leak is when hot.

After isolating it to the transmission I started doing research and have identified it as a PCM 40i transmission. So I am exploring rebuilding if I can convince myself that there will not be any issues (worried about the slipping causing damage that a rebuild would not fix, but I could be wrong). I have also started exploring a complete change out to new. However, from what I read 40is are not as easy to find, so my next question (forum search) is can you do a direct swap from a PCM 40i to a PCM 80i transmission and what are the pros/cons of doing so. Anyone, Have any thoughts on this one

[liquiddreams]

Sorry I did not see your post sooner...I could have confirmed that they are two seperate units. As others have indicated, any milky-looking oil is bad and I do have a question...Your original post said that the V-drive fluid is a milky-yellow color. Is it the V-drive or the transmission that emptied itself into the bilge?

No worries and thanks for responding at all. My original post was my brain working through the scenario for the next day. The next day answered a lot of questions for me. As for the milky picture above it is the V-drive which is separate from the transmission (I now know this). That is why it did not look like there was any fluid loss, but I was seeing oil in the bilge. I am not sure if this is the normal color and it was like this after being ran all day, so that might make a difference. I will check it again on Tuesday, but plan on doing a fluid change anyway to be on the safe side. I now know that it is the transmission and I am exploring all of the possible solutions now. Love to hear anyone's input on this.

[wayoutthere]

Then there are 2 coolers 1 for trans 1 for v drive.

I would loop the v drive cooler lines 1 on the cooler 1 on the v drive then with a 12 volt oil pump i would fill and flush the v drive a couple times.
then i would check the cooler lines on the transmission to see if they leaked cracked split etc,
like a line was on its way out and a hard turn flexed it enough to let go. The transmission lines can be looped as well if there is a bad one.

i like the cardboard, paper towels, rags etc under the engine/ trans to isolate the drip/leak.

refill the trans and run the boat, if it still slips then a new set of clutch plates is in order what is it bw 10-17

if it does not slip Do NOT spend the day out on the boat looped cooler lines are what you do to test and verify or not what your hoping for (a simple fix).

if the v drive oil comes up clean and the looped hose on its cooler is full of water, you troubleshot that part.

Good luck, hope its just a simple fix for ya

[liquiddreams]

Then there are 2 coolers 1 for trans 1 for v drive.

I would loop the v drive cooler lines 1 on the cooler 1 on the v drive then with a 12 volt oil pump i would fill and flush the v drive a couple times.
then i would check the cooler lines on the transmission to see if they leaked cracked split etc,
like a line was on its way out and a hard turn flexed it enough to let go. The transmission lines can be looped as well if there is a bad one.

i like the cardboard, paper towels, rags etc under the engine/ trans to isolate the drip/leak.

refill the trans and run the boat, if it still slips then a new set of clutch plates is in order what is it bw 10-17

if it does not slip Do NOT spend the day out on the boat looped cooler lines are what you do to test and verify or not what your hoping for (a simple fix).

if the v drive oil comes up clean and the looped hose on its cooler is full of water, you troubleshot that part.

Good luck, hope its just a simple fix for ya

I never once thought about the lines.... Face palm.

So if I am tracking this correctly you are saying to loop the lines and run the boat in the water to check for slipping. If so, obviously not that long due to the cooler lines not being connected to the drive. I do like the fact of being able to isolate the hoses to find out if there is an issue there. I will have to look into what it will take to connect the two lines, so I can take it out there with me. Thanks for the help with this.

[Infinity]

No worries and thanks for responding at all. My original post was my brain working through the scenario for the next day. The next day answered a lot of questions for me. As for the milky picture above it is the V-drive which is separate from the transmission (I now know this). That is why it did not look like there was any fluid loss, but I was seeing oil in the bilge. I am not sure if this is the normal color and it was like this after being ran all day, so that might make a difference. I will check it again on Tuesday, but plan on doing a fluid change anyway to be on the safe side. I now know that it is the transmission and I am exploring all of the possible solutions now. Love to hear anyone's input on this.

That Power Plus vdrive fluid is NOT normal color. That special synthetic fluid is clear looking in color. P/N = R190251.
When you get water into the vdrive or transmission.... it requires sucking out the old fluid and putting in new fluid.... then running it on the water for a little bit, then doing it again. Typically you need to suck out and replace at least 3 times to get all the old fluid out since you cannot suck out every bit of the old fluid with an extractor.
Planet Nautique sells the Power Plus vdrive fluid you need.... Full change takes approx 1 3/4 quarts. In my boat with Power Plus, I can only get approx 1 quart out using extractor. I changed mine last year since it was approx 5yrs old and ended up removing 1 quart and replacing it.....then I ran the boat for a day and removed/replaced another quart. Figured that would get my fluid to almost new condition, mine was not water contaminated tho. Good luck, hate to hear of your issues.

https://www.nautiqueparts.com/produc...ive-oil-quart/

[liquiddreams]

That Power Plus vdrive fluid is NOT normal color. That special synthetic fluid is clear looking in color. P/N = R190251.
When you get water into the vdrive or transmission.... it requires sucking out the old fluid and putting in new fluid.... then running it on the water for a little bit, then doing it again. Typically you need to suck out and replace at least 3 times to get all the old fluid out since you cannot suck out every bit of the old fluid with an extractor.
Planet Nautique sells the Power Plus vdrive fluid you need.... Full change takes approx 1 3/4 quarts. In my boat with Power Plus, I can only get approx 1 quart out using extractor. I changed mine last year since it was approx 5yrs old and ended up removing 1 quart and replacing it.....then I ran the boat for a day and removed/replaced another quart. Figured that would get my fluid to almost new condition, mine was not water contaminated tho. Good luck, hate to hear of your issues.

https://www.nautiqueparts.com/produc...ive-oil-quart/

Thanks. So I reached out to SKIDIM and sent them a picture of the fluid. They stated that it was normal, but I am planning on doing a change on the fluid anyway like you stated above (just to be on the safe side). I have about decided to just upgrade to the 80i transmission (that way I won't have to worry) since the parts are limited on the 40i transmission. I plan on doing a lot of wakeboarding and surfing in the boat, so I guess the 80i would be better to have anyway.

According to SKIDIM the 80i should be a direct replacement and comes with everything needed to do the change including the lines and transmission cooler. If anyone has any input or experience on this one it would be greatly appreciated.

[Jonny Quest]

The new PCM 80 is a good tranny. Very robust. It should be a plug and play install. I believe that the kit comes with a new damper plate and new cooler. Good-to-go.

[liquiddreams]

The new PCM 80 is a good tranny. Very robust. It should be a plug and play install. I believe that the kit comes with a new damper plate and new cooler. Good-to-go.

Thanks. you are correct. It has the Damper and the cooler, which is why I leaned towards just going with it. I am glad to hear that it should be a plug and play install. Looking forward to years of play from this boat and want it to hold up to the use.