mid 80's Ski Nautique 2001 - sitting for 7 yrs - no spark, no fuel

[pdebruic]

We're in Oregon. My friend's boat has been sitting on a hydro-hoist under a roof on a fresh water lake in winterized condition for the past 7 years. It was winterized by his dad before he passed & my friend only now has time to get back to getting it running. So we've started trying to get it to run and have two issues thus far:

1. The low pressure fuel pump gives no gas - we can't hear it run over the "beep" noise from the ignition prior to cranking. It might be trying to run but nothing comes out of the the FCC intake fuel line at the front of the engine. The low pressure pump does measure 5V across the terminals when the key is turned to "on". There is some gas in the tank but its not full.

2. The coil gets 12V when the ignition is on but the #1 spark plug (and I assume the others) does not spark.


Could this be a non-obvious electrical issue like a blown fuse or switch we don't know to flip?

What should we check before we start replacing parts?

It seems like everything is there. It was working well before sitting so long.

If we start replacing parts so far our list is

rotor
cap
condenser
point

low pressure fuel pump
anti-siphon valve

Does anything else come to mind?

Thanks!

[Skidave]

Everyone is going to ask what year is this boat. Any mid 1980s Ski Nautique is going to have a carburetor and no FCC. Unless, someone installed a newer motor.

After 7 years, you need all new fluids and that gas is crap.

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[pdebruic]

Ahh ok. Thanks skidave.

You're right its got a holley carb. I'd guess 84-85 but can't show any documentation right now as I didn't take any pics.

Is there a serial number or model # plate I should find so I can find out for sure? How would doing that help diagnose the lack of spark and fuel?

It does not have electronic ignition. I think probably the pump is clogged with varnish from evaporated gas and the points are oxidized but am just grasping at straws.....

The low pressure pump isn't getting fuel out of the tank (we siphoned it and it has a couple gallons of new, pulled plugs, fogged it, compression too) but aren't planning on running it long where it sits if it ever starts.

We're just trying to get our ducks in a row. It doesn't fire on starter fluid. Cranks just fine. We're not trying to run for hours just yet just get it to have some signs of life.

It'll be a couple weeks before we get back to it and the nearest part store is about a half hour from the boat. Which is why we're asking here. Hopefully that extra information helps.

If it doesn't fire on ether does it matter how bad the fluids are?

Could this be a non-obvious electrical issue like a blown fuse or switch we don't know to flip?

What should we check before we start replacing parts?

Thanks!

[Jonny Quest]

1. Replace all the fuel. Really. All the fuel. Flush the fuel lines. Check your anti-siphon valve.
2. Strongly consider a carburetor re-build
3. Strongly consider a new fuel pump
4. Replace distributor cap and rotor
5. Replace spark plugs
6. Replace the engine oil and transmission oil as stated above
7. Check main electrical connections for good connectivity

Get a multi-meter (volt meter) and check your voltage at the + side of coil, at the starter switch / solenoid. If you've got a distributor with points, you want 12V coming into the ballast/resistor and 8V to 9V at the + of the coil. If you have an E-distributor without points, then you want 12V at the + of the coil. Get an inexpensive in-line spark tester and start checking your system for spark.

Report back.

JQ

[Skidave]

Also check the ignition fuse on the dash. I believe they are still fuses on that age of boat. I had a corroded fuse holder that would cause ignition problems.

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[hal2814]

Unless someone changed the factory setup, you probably just have the one fuel pump. And it’s mechanical. It pumps when your engine turns. Not sure what you’re pulling 5v off of but if it’s at the tank where a lot of cars have low pressure pumps, it’s probably the fuel level sender. It’ll read 5v and some low mA number. Also if it’s factory, you probably have a Holley 4160. They’re dirt simple to rebuild so follow the advice above. You need one special tool. It’s a screwdriver for the jets and it’s like $5-$10.

[Fast351]

It it's a mechanical pump, it will take a while to get fuel at the carb. Remember you're drawing a vacuum to try to pump fuel from the tank to the pump, and those pumps are not super efficient at doing that (usually the fuel line will be full of fuel and they're drawing fluid not air).

I would also suspect the anti-siphon valve (make sure it's not stuck) and make sure that once you do get fuel to the pump to check the air hole on the pump itself. If it starts spitting fuel you have a ruptured diaphragm and will need to replace the pump. It likely won't even prime in that condition. To check the fuel pump, remove the tank line from the pump, hook up a hunk of fuel line, and drop it into a half full 2 gallon gas tank. This will verify whether the pump still works while bypassing a potentially stuck anti-siphon valve or crap in the tank.

As far as the carb goes, it more than likely has gummed up passenges in the metering block and the float valve is probably all crudded up. Take the advise mentioned above and rebuild it. I think those have an in-line filter at the input to the carb too. Replace that.

Before any of the fuel stuff though, make sure the spark is present. Fortunately that's easier. I don't think you "really" need to replace cap+rotor and plugs before doing a run test, although you will want to do it before you actually try to run it for real. Just grab a piece of emery cloth and clean the rotor posts inside the cap. Unless they look horrible, it'll get spark regardless of condition. I don't know those older boats well enough to know if they have points or electronic ignition so I will leave that to someone else to figure out.

So:

1) Figure out spark. No sense in having fuel everywhere, the boat will never run without it, and you could be pumping fuel into the oil by trying to start it. Getting it to cough on starter fluid is a good check to make sure it's going to run.
2) Get fuel to the carb. Bring a portable fuel container and a hose. Eliminates ****ty gas and fuel system issues to the pump.
3) Rebuild carb. Honestly, the odds of the thing even idling rough without issues by trying to get it started without doing this are low.

Once you get it to run, change all the fluids, including all the gas.

Bring a fresh battery (I assume you have one already) and a jump pack just in case.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

[pdebruic]

Thanks all!

It is a regular distributor with points. It did have 12+ at the coil but I don't recall if we measured 9 across the ballast or not. We did pull the #1 plug, re-attach the wire, ground it, and crank it and didn't see any spark.


Will let you know how it goes in a week or two.

[hal2814]

Do the same spark plug test with the wire coming out of the coil. Hook it to a spark plug instead of the distributor. If you’re getting spark there, you know it’s the points that need work. If that fails, get a new coil. And get one that runs through the resistor if you’re running points. 12V is probably too much to continually run through the points and condenser.

[pdebruic]

trim.04211F6E-2388-4E12-9A48-14786E0DEDAB.MOV

we replaced the coil and ballast resistor and sanded the points and used fresh gas into the fuel pump and it ran great. Thanks for your help.