PDM Goes Out? Need opinion

[mlsurfco]

Hello All... 2017 G23. Boat came off warranty at the end of April 29th. The dealer winterizes and prepares the boat for summer every year. So here is what happened
1) Get boat delivered on April 27th
2) Go to fill the ballast bags and the right one wont fill on May 27th.
3) Called dealer and they assumed it was a sensor (which I had the left one fixed two years ago). Quoted ~$700 to fix
4) Finally made it out to dock to fix but said that the whole PDM is shot. Quoted ~$2000 to fix

So now I am stuck with a large repair that I believe was broken when we received the boat. Shouldn't they check the ballast bags as part of preparing the boat for summer? Wouldn't they get some sort of code if the entire PDM is fried? And is there two PDMs, one for the right bag and one for the left? I am confused.

Long story short, I pay them $3500'ish to pick up the boat, winterize, shrink wrap, store, get ready for the summer and bring back to me but now I dont trust them. Their service manager wont try to help me at all...

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[bturner]

First, sorry to hear about the issues you're having and best luck getting them resolve quickly. With that out of the way my thoughts on this are probably not going to be comforting or what you want to hear but this is what I've learned over the years and what I'm seeing these days......

• Boating is expensive (as you well know already) and it gets really expensive if you can't or don't want to do the maintenance/repairs yourself.
• No one cares about your stuff more than you. Anyone servicing your boat/car/plane/etc. regardless of the price you pay or lever of service you receive will care more and do a more comprehensive job on their own stuff.
• Electronics and water don't mix.
• The more electronics you have in a boat the more likely you'll eventually have a failure.
• Those same electronics can and will fail for no apparent reason. It's just the nature of the beast. When those failures occur expect big repair bills.
• The bigger and more complex the boat, the more it will cost you to maintain it and repair it.

On service.... The price you're paying for the level of service you're receiving sounds about right based on what I'm seeing here locally. While you have a great boat, had warranty and have stuck with the dealer at the end of the day in their eyes this is a used boat. The dealers I know almost always treat customers who bought new from them better than used and the ones that bought used from them better than those that bought used on the open market. You probably paid a ton for that boat but if you didn't buy it from them then that really doesn't mean anything to them, you're just a service customer to them and they probably have a full plate right now.

On the issue and repair.... Let's start with the failure. As stated above electronics can and will fail for no apparent reason. Who hasn't gone to boot their computer or turn on a TV and just have it give up there and then without someone doing something blatantly to damage it. Boats these days are floating computers with small TV screens and will have the same issues all electronic devices will have. The more of them you have integrated into the boat the more issues you will potentially have. Do I think the person that serviced your boat last year did something to damage your PDM? No, that's very unlikely. More likely is that it just gave up the ghost randomly or from an overpower incident related to the ballast issues you were having.

On cost of the repair..... The cost of everything is going through the roof, which you probably are well aware of as well. Parts alone, if you can find them (my 2019 Tahoe was just in the shop for 27 days waiting on parts) seem to be priced differently everyday. Labor is getting crazy as well. The 2 local tier 1 boat dealers are now charging $130/hr for service labor and I was told to expect that to go up as well. Worse, finding anyone to actually work is getting harder as well and their hourly plus benefits are going up too. My local MC dealer quit doing detail work directly and now outsources it because they couldn't get reliable skilled help to do that labor intensive work. As such I would expect that the $3500 you're currently paying to go up closer to $4000 next year. So, do I think the repair cost is high? Yeah, of course I do but I don't think you'll get a better deal somewhere else that will actually know what their doing.

As far as trying to get the service manager to do something for you goes.... I don't think he has much if any room to work. His costs are pretty much fixed and options are very limited if the boat is out of warranty. Unless someone actually damaged your boat when it was in the shop his responsibility and loyalty is going to be to getting his guys paid and to his employer who is paying him. So unless it was something that was clearly caused by an employee they're not going to eat that cost. Could they give you the part at cost? I guess but if they didn't cause the problem why would they? Would you if it were your business? That and would that really be that great of a discount? I doubt it.

My last thought on your comments would be about the shrink wrap. You don't actually store that expensive boat outside do you? One thing I did years and years ago was find indoor storage somewhere for my boat every year. I personally feel that in colder climates like ours this will add years to the boat across the board (electronics, interior materials, gel coat and electronics) as extreme cold and the elements are very hard on just about anything when sitting outside. You get tons of bonus points if you can find heated or climate controlled indoor storage.

[Scooter G]

Sorry to hear about the dilemma misurfco. The warranty is a wonderful comfy blanket until is no longer there and your left shivering in the cold. It may be time to become a master of Marine DYI, or keep writing fat checks. BOAT = Bust out another thousand, true statement. I will have about $3500 into my G this spring in parts and repairs, not counting my hours of free labor, subs, sensors, impellers, vent cover, misc trailer parts and bent brackets, and normal maintenance.
Just trying to help with a couple of alternative options:
Call Nautique Parts, they are very helpful, and see what a replacement would run. Grab the part # from them. Phone: 910.247.6201 (between 9:00 am – 5:00 pm, Monday-Friday, EST)
Maimi Nautique lists the part on their site @ $550 bones (not positive it is the correct part).
https://www.mniboats.com/nautique-bo...m-p/120046.htm
If you end up doing it your self, please take pictures and give us a write up please. I know that it will come in handy for others in the future. Thanks Bud, and best of luck!

[mlsurfco]

Thanks for thoughts and detailed responses. Love this forum.

and I did buy the boat new from the dealer so have a higher expectation of service.

[MN Ryan]

mlsurfco Out of curiousity, are you on Medicine Lake?

[mlsurfco]

Yep. That is us!

[MN Ryan]

Gosh, I hate that boat launch. Can you work on dredging a channel to deeper water?

[mlsurfco]

Launch is solid. The 300 yards of channel SUCKS!

[mlange]

$2000 to replace a PDM??? PDM itself is $550.

[MN Ryan]

Yeah, the launch itself is great, but that extended 3' deep channel with random rocks is BRUTAL!

[NautiqueJeff]

I MIGHT have a PDM I could sell you for less. I will check on Friday when I get back to the lake. I had one, but I can't remember if I sold it or not.

[jpwhit]

Shouldn't they check the ballast bags as part of preparing the boat for summer? Wouldn't they get some sort of code if the entire PDM is fried? And is there two PDMs, one for the right bag and one for the left? I am confused.

Seems like your dealer charges outrages prices in general.

To answer some of your specific questions. A PDM is a general purpose input / output power module. It has 12 outputs and 20 inputs. In addition to controlling the ballast pumps, it controls every other electrical device in your boat such as lights, blower motors, trim tabs, NSS actuators, heated seats, heaters, etc. A boat has more than one when more than 12 output and/or 20 inputs are needed. There is not a PDM specifically for the left and right ballast systems. Yes, if the entire PDM is dead, then you would get an error code and every other device controlled by that specific PDM would be dead, but that's not likely your problem. You problem is likely that one of the 20 output is fried. That may or may not produce an error code, just depends specifically on exactly how that output is damaged. And your dealer can't repair one output on a sealed PDM. They have to replace the whole PDM.

I've never cracked a PDM open and fixed one input or output. I could probably do it, but I likely couldn't reseal it to be as waterproof as a new one, so probably not the best repair option.

As mlange mentioned, a PDM is about $550 brand new. And it's a 5-10 minute job to replace one. Again, it seems your dealer has extremely high labor rates and part cost markup.

https://www.murcal.com/IX3212-PDM-12-VDC-58700012

[mlange]

If you're interested in learning more about PDM and even want to do some troubleshooting take a look at this attachment.

5.04 2012-2015 Electrical Presentation - Larry Shea.pdf

[scottb7]

following that chain of logic makes me wonder...if one of the outputs is bad, could you move the needed output wire to another unused one...for example as you mentioned, and pictured one of the outputs is for heated seats. if you don't have or care about heated seats, can you use that output for the ballast bag that you do want to use? the PDM's "talk to eachother" via CAN?

I think above actually would work, not that I try to remember what i read some time ago, but you have to program the pdm's somehow....they have to know the specifications for each output....but if that is the case, it may not be plug and play, right?

[jpwhit]

scottb7 what you're suggesting would be possible if the software running on the control display (HV700) let you change the mappings for which PDM outputs it used for a specific function such as turning on a ballast pump. To the best of my knowledge, that software does not provide a way to change those mappings.

However your suggestion did prompt me to realize there may be a simple fix. For boats that have 2 PDMs, typically the 2nd PDM isn't heavily used. So, you may be able to simply swap the PDMs and hope the bad output on the first PDM is not used on the 2nd PDM.

Of course, this assumes the dealer's diagnosis is correct. Which I wouldn't assume is the case. PDMs have a ton of circuit protection built in to self-protect themselves from any kind of damage. So, it's extremely rare to have an output fail. It's much more common for example to have a problem with a connector or wiring harness. And it's easy to mistake those issues for a problem with the PDM. Personally, I wouldn't do anything until I verified the diagnosis myself.