Zero off gps/speedo not working

[Callumohare06]

Hi there, just bought a 2008 ski nautique and I’m trying to see if the transducer itself is broken or if there’s something else. I’ve been under the boat and the paddle only moves a very small radius and doesn’t fully spin. Is this normal?
The zero off says GPS1_FAIL but when I unplug both gps modules it still only has gps1 fail. If I swap them it still says gps1 fail. How should I go about testing them or is this a controller issue?
would appreciate any help / knowledge.
thanks

[MN Ryan]

The paddlewheel should spin freely. You can buy a replacement pretty cheaply, and that might fix the speedo issue. https://nautiqueparts.com/paddlewheel-replacement-kit/

I can't help with the Zero Off problem.

[jpwhit]

Late 2007 and early 2008 was the transition period between Perfect Pass and Zero Off for Nautique. Many boats in that timeframe came with both Perfect Pass and Zero Off. Sounds like you likely have one of those boats.

Perfect Pass used the paddle wheel and Zero Off was based purely on the GPS pucks. When the boat was equipped with both speed controls, I'm not sure how they setup the data source for the speedometer. It's possible that your speedometer is driven from the paddle wheel via a MMDC. And as MN Ryan point out, it should rotate so it sounds like it's broken. Assuming the MMDC is still working, then fixing the paddle wheel may fix your speedo. Also, I've seen a lot of boats from this vintage that had perfect pass, but someone has removed the gauge because they never used it. But often the Perfect Pass main module is still wired into the boat's electrical system.

The original Zero Off used 2 Garmin GPS pucks. And since you're getting gps1 fail message in the diagnostics screen, you probably do have issues with the puck(s). Unfortunately, the pucks that will actually work with that vintage ZO are no longer available from Garmin. The original GPS chip that was used in those pucks is no longer made. Garmin still sells a puck with the same model number, but it uses a different chip that works in most applications but unfortunately Zero Off will not work correctly with the newer chip. Last I knew, Zero Off and Perfect Pass did still have some old stock of the GPS pucks that's work, but they are pretty expensive.

To make matters even more convoluted, the working vintage Garmin pucks have a software bug where they don't handle the GPS Week Rollover that happened on April 7th, 2019. The bug doesn't render the pucks completely inoperable, but it causes them to lose sync with the satellites at random times. When that happens Zero off starts surging badly until you shut off the main power switch to the boat and reboot the whole zero off system.

Zero Off's recommendation to solve this problem is to upgrade your Zero Off system to the latest single puck GPS and Zero Off software.

It is possible to upgrade the firmware on working pucks to a version that doesn't have the GPS Week Rollover, but it's pretty tricky to do. You have to take the pucks out of the boat and wire them up to a computer. In addition to putting on the right older version of firmware, you also have to re-setup the configuration of the puck as Zero Off expects. On my 2012 Nautique 200, I started having issues pretty shortly after the 2019 GPS Week Rollover. I ended up having to replace one of the pucks because it had actually failed. I found a puck in the correct serial number range on eBay for cheap. I updated firmware on both the working pucks and reconfigured them boat as Zero Off expects.

When I was doing all this, I also noticed that no matter which puck wasn't working. The error in the zero off diagnostics page was "gps 1 failed". I never saw an error for "gps 2 failed" regardless of which connector the bad puck was plugged into.

So the only way I know to tell if a puck is working is to wire it up to a TTL level serial port on a computer. Because of all this complication, I suspect that's why Zero Off recommends that people just upgrade the latest generation Zero Off.

Have you actually tried mapping a course and seeing if your ZO will engage and regulate speed? Even with that gps1 fail message, it's possible that one of the pucks is still working and the ZO may actually work. If nothing else, that would tell you that the hardware of one of your pucks is still actually working. I'm sure with only 1 working puck that likely has the GPS Week Rollover bug, that the ZO will flak out pretty often. If it won't work at all, then I think it's likely the hardware of both pucks have failed.

I have all the nitty gritty details somewhere, but it's been almost 4 years since I did the updates on my boat, so I'd have to search around to find them.

[shag]

So if it is saying GPS fail, it is a problem with the puck or wire. It could have just came unplugged somewhere but probably not. I recently had to replace the Zero off in my 2008 230, and unfortunately the dealer didn't order the entire kit (complete kit). the gaige itself was like $600 or $700, and I had the GPS 1 fail message. Turns out the older puck doesn't work with the newer gauge. Guess how much for the antenna.... about $1000! Stupid.. But, you can buy the entire kit from Zero Off directly for $1325. Better yet, i just found the whole kit on Great lakes skipper for $1099. And then they had a sale, and I ended up getting the whole entire kit, gauge, puck, harness and all shipped for $950... I would be checking your connections first, but I bet the puck may have failed... I don't know how that happens, but dealer said sometimes they do.

[jpwhit]

Turns out the older puck doesn't work with the newer gauge.

I'm way more experienced with the 3-event version of Zero Off. Did your boat have that version or the Standard version that is focused more on wakeboarding, surfing, and recreational slalom? I don't think that'll really matter because I'm pretty sure the only difference is just limitation in the Zero Off software to remove access to slalom course mapping and the Jump course mapping and mode. The standard version also may only come with a single Garmin puck. 3-even Zero-off also will work with a single puck, it's just not a precise and smooth as when both pucks are installed and working.

A new gauge will come with Rev S of zero off software loaded. That will only work with the new puck. Your dealer needed to know to revert the software on the gauge back to Rev R, then it would have worked with the older puck. Assuming your older puck was actually good.

This is assuming the original problem was diagnosed correctly. In my experience, the zero off head units are very reliable. The original Garmin pucks do fail way way more often than the head units. I wouldn't call the pucks unreliable, but failures are not terribly uncommon.

I also think it may be true, that if you order the old-style Garmin pucks from Zero Off, they still ship it with the original Garmin firmware that has the GPS Week Rollover bug. I assume that's because they've never gone through a complete verification process for the Zero Off system as a whole with newer versions of the Garmin puck firmware. And the latest Garmin puck firmware actually does not work at all with Zero Off.

I've heard that Perfect Pass may sell the older style pucks with a level of firmware that'll work w/ Zero Off and configured properly to work with Zero Off. But I would call them to make sure the firmware they have on the puck is a level that fixes the GPS Week Rollover Issue. Perfect Pass uses the same puck hardware from Garmin for the Stargazer system.