2000 SAN Apex engine troubles - water leaking

[msquito]

Hey all,
Forgive my ignorance here, I'm hoping you can educate me a bit...
Over the weekend, boat lost power and was making some loud squealing (belt?) noises. I wasn't present, but apparently full throttle resulted in minimal power output. To me it sounded (at least the description of the noise) like the engine-compartment got flooded from behind by cutting power w/ a full wake behind - I typically try to turn 90 before cutting power when picking up a dropped surfer to prevent this.
Went down last night to have a look. Lots of water in the bilge. Engine is slow to start (like low-charge on battery), but it starts. Looking in while running, the engine is dumping water into the engine compartment low on the port side of the engine where component x (what is this?) fastens to engine. Attached photo of component x, and link to video of water intrusion. No leaks when engine isn't running, and after an hour or so of bilge-pump runnin g I managed to make a good dent, but still more to go and obvious issues with the engine.
Any insight here much appreciated. We've got a call into a mechanic, but I'd like to have some idea of what I'm talking about with them...
thx!

[NautiqueJeff]

That component appears to be your starter.

I think the churning water you're seeing is all of the water in the bilge being stirred up by the flywheel on your engine.

That is a TON of water. Something major must have happened for that much water to get in.

Drain the water ASAP, and then try again. And check your oil for water contamination and change it immediately if necessary. Same with your transmission fluid.

[msquito]

Starter, got it, thx.
Yeah, it is a crazy amount of water. TBH I'm at a loss as to how it got in if the engine's not pushing it.
I got it pumped out today after work (re-purposed one of the ballast pump lines to accelerate the process). No measurable increase in water since I last ran engine and bilge pump yesterday, and didn't notice any more coming in today while I kept an eye on it for awhile. Engine won't start now. Starter gives a loud click followed by a series of lesser clicks - almost turned over a couple times but nothing sufficient to start the engine. Batteries are measuring at 12+ according to the gauge. I tried it more times than I probably should've but decided it was time to stop before I definitively kill batteries.
Not getting a response from our mechanic, anybody in the Seattle area have a mobile mechanic they like that'll come out to Sammamish?

thx

[msquito]

well, quick update...
got down to boat this evening to take another look. no measurable water ingress since I pumped it out Thursday evening. Engine still won't turn over - starter solenoid responds, but starter's toast. Ordered a new starter, will get that replaced, start it up and take a look to see if we're taking in water via the engine. Had a look at the oil today, no water contamination. Any resources//guidance for checking transmission fluid?
thx

[bturner]

Well, that's not good. How much ballast are you running to get the boat swamped like that in a single instance?

My money is on the starter but based on how much you've run the battery without the engine running it could easily be the battery as well. Voltage should be ~12.6 volts with a fully charged battery but voltage only tells a partial story. I've seen batteries with a dead cell show over 12 volts and not be able to turn the starter over. Only a load test will find this which any auto parts store can do for you.

You should have a dip stick on the trans. Pull the dip stick and look for signs of water. If the trans uses trans fluid it should be bright red. If the trans uses oil, you're looking for clean oil. If either are milky or have foam in them, they're contaminated and need to be flush immediately. By flushed I mean fluid changed, run briefly and changed again. Do this until there's no more contamination in the fluid. I would personally then run the boat for a couple hours and do another oil/filter change and continue to monitor closely for the rest of the season.

[msquito]

wasn't swamped, TBH I'm not sure where/how it's getting in - no measurable increase after 5 days floating since I emptied it. After I replace the starter, and get the engine sorted figuring that out'll be the first order of business.
thanks for the tips on fluids, will have to search harder for the trans fluid - didn't find a dipstick the other night...

[CheeseSteak1]

Replace starter, get back in the water and video where the water is coming in at. Shooting blind at the issue until you get back on the water running with an empty bilge. Also, why didn’t you just pull the drain plugs to empty?

[SilentSeven]

It's it's not taking on water at rest, water is coming in when you operated either the engine or ballast system. Should be easy to check to determine which one. Once you solve the starting problem, run the boat but don't fill any tanks/sacks. See if you take water. If yes, you have a leak within the engine cooling system. Stays dry? Fill your ballast systems...inspect...pump the ballast...inspect. You get it. This should help you narrow down where to look.

I'm in Bellevue. Is your boat on Lake Samm? Whereabouts? I'd be happy to come take a took if you think it might help..... Full disclosure: I'm a direct drive guy...and my boat has a super simple ballast system. Pretty boat handy overall but not very familiar with the v-drives.

[msquito]

thx Seven - yeah, on Samm up by Idylwood.
That's more or less what I'm planning on for debugging the water ingress.
Appreciate the offer to come have a look - if I'm still stumped after I get things up & running again I'll take you up on it : )))

[Jonny Quest]

Starter likely got fried by water intrusion. Starters don't like to be submerged in water. I've seen many starters that are fused and rusted tight due to water in the bilge.

Typical areas where water gets into the bilge are from the driveshaft seal and the rudder port. One good way of determining where the water is entering the bilge is to put the boat on a trailer and then fill the bilge with a hose. Make sure the drain plug is in place. Then look under the boat and see where water is leaking out. If the water leaks IN it will also leak OUT.

Sometimes, the leaking driveshaft seal and rudder port will only leak significant amounts of water based on boat speed and shaft rotation. If your fill-the-bilge test doesn't show much water intrusion, then I would focus on the ballast system for your water leak source.

JQ

[msquito]

yep, starter was toast. Lesson learned about running engine with that much water in the bilge. Crawled back there and replaced with new unit from Nautique Parts - plug 'n play...

As to the leak, bilge still hadn't taken on much if any water since Tuesday, so poked around with the engine running now that I can start it : ))). Culprit found. Or at least a significant contributor - can't say for sure if it's the only one, but it's clearly the one to address first. The fiberglass is cracked on the muffler (I think it's the muffler) downstream of the engine where the two exhaust manifolds tie together, and leaking a steady stream of water while idling - didn't run for very long, and didn't rev it higher than idle so unsure if the stream increases with RPM. Here's a video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uTsLKtWT3vUzY6Q66

What's the fix here? Is this a fly-by-seat type of mix & spread epoxy while in-place, or do I need pull the entire fiberglass unit and do a proper cleaning and epoxy job (why do I feel like I know the answer as I ask)? How much of a PIA is it to pull that thing out? Is it as simple as undoing the SS bands at each of the exhaust manifolds and the exhaust-port low on the stern? I assume I could probably wrap/ziptie some plastic over the exhaust port from the exterior to minimize water intrusion until I can stuff/plug the line from interior after removing the fiberglass. Boat is currently moored in-water, pulling it out for the fix, while not infeasible will definitely complicate the logistics so would prefer to make repairs with boat in the water if it can be done in a reasonably responsible manner...
thoughts?
thx

[msquito]

...or do I pull the boat for a week and just do it right with FAE?

[jpwhit]

You can repair a fiberglass muffler like that, but I don't think I would attempt such a repair with the boat in the water. You definitely need to remove the muffler for a repair that will hold. You repair them with fiberglass cloth and resin after cleaning up the area where you'll apply the patch with a sander or a grinder. Trying to seal the muffler outlet from water intrusion seems very risky to me. If it doesn't hold, the boat can sink from an opening that size so quickly that you won't be able to do anything about it.

If you're inclined to install FAE, then I think this is a great time to do it. I have their SS muffler pipes and underwater external exhaust system installed on my wake boat. One of the best upgrades I've done to the boat.

[SilentSeven]

Nice find. Definitely shouldn't be doing that! I'd pull the muffler to repair. To get a good repair bond, you'll need to clean the unit and then grind clean the repair area. TAP plastics on Northup way will have what you need.

While it's off, inspect for broken internal baffles. While not familiar with this specific muffler, had a broken baffle on my last boat that was partially blocking one of the ports. Just cut it out to make sure it was not obstructing....

[s_kelley2000]

My brother had good luck repairing a leaky muffler with fiberglass cloth and epoxy without removing the muffler. That was over 10 years ago and still holding fine. Although being a direct drive he had much better access to clean up the area then you would in your v-drive but if you can clean it up good without removing it I think you have a good chance for a solid repair. You definitely need to haul the boat out of the water before pulling the muffler if you decide to go that route as water will come in through the muffler outlet and swamp the boat very quickly. I just watched your video, yikes that is a tight spot to access!

If you haven't found the transmission dipstick yet, it should be on the left side when looking aft down low near the front of the engine compartment. It is a short L shaped handle. You probably have to twist it a little before it will pull out. If you pull the back seat rest out it is easier to find. You should check your V drive fluid as well. If you pull the middle bottom rear seat cushion and then the access cover under that you should see the round dipstick there.