Why does one need to open plugs when one sucks in gallons of antifreeze ?

[Mz3bo]

Hello folks,

I am pretty new at winterizing our pcm z409 sante 230. My motor is running Dex cool(fresh water) raw water. I do have a heater but it is connected to the fresh water (dexcool).I have read the owner's manual as well as the engine operator guide and I saw all the steps required to winterize the engine. However all those steps are made without considering that we can have the engine suck in gallons of antifreeze. My question is, what would be the purpose of opening the drain and letting the raw water out if I was to have l, let's say 10 gallons of antifreeze, sucked it into the engine ? Won't the antifreeze replace all the raw water ? Of course the quantity of antifreeze is a presumption anday sounds exaverated but I can have as much as required...

[bturner]

Everyone is going to have their own take on the best way to do things and will typically voice those opinions in threads like this. That said I'll take a run at this.....

The recommendation of draining all the water from the system before filling is done to ensure that any water trapped in a passage within the system is evacuated. It doesn't take much water when frozen to crack cast iron or split a thin walled metal container. The power of water is incredible.

Theoretically and probably practically, running 10+ gallons of antifreeze through the system should suffice purging the water from the system and replacing it with antifreeze however you really never know for sure if the water has been purged or just diluted with antifreeze or to what level it has been diluted. Draining the water and then filling or running the antifreeze into the system will ensure the system is adequately protected. For me personally, doing so makes me sleep better at night knowing I won't end up with a $5K - $10K bill for a freeze damaged engine come spring. In short, the juice (end result) is worth the squeeze (extra effort).

Moving past the end result my major concern with doing this method would be, how do you plan to catch and dispose of all this antifreeze you plan to run through your system? Just because some of these products say they're non toxic doesn't mean they're safe to drink, just dump on the ground or pour into the sewer system. The last thing I personally want to do is kill off the local wild life or the neighbor's pet taking a short cut winterizing my boat. But that's just me, I'm sure others have different opinions on this.

[jpwhit]

The recommended winterizing process in the manuals by PCM is based on draining the water. It's not based on sucking antifreeze into the system. I don't ever use antifreeze if I winterize my boats. It's extra work, expense, and mess that's not necessary IMO. Especially if you have a closed loop cooling systems. I could winterize that engine in less than 5 minutes by draining the raw water section.

[Mz3bo]

Quote removed by Admin for not following the Guidelines for Quoting Previous Posts in a Thread.

Thanks for commenting. That is interesting. Here locally (where winter gets to -30F and lower), a lot of folks are talking about antifreeze but you are correct, no where in the instruction it mention that there is a need for using the antifreeze... now I am wondering why is most of the wake type boat owners here are using antifreeze... hmmm...

[Mz3bo]

Everyone is going to have their own take on the best way to do things and will typically voice those opinions in threads like this. That said I'll take a run at this.....

The recommendation of draining all the water from the system before filling is done to ensure that any water trapped in a passage within the system is evacuated. It doesn't take much water when frozen to crack cast iron or split a thin walled metal container. The power of water is incredible.

Theoretically and probably practically, running 10+ gallons of antifreeze through the system should suffice purging the water from the system and replacing it with antifreeze however you really never know for sure if the water has been purged or just diluted with antifreeze or to what level it has been diluted. Draining the water and then filling or running the antifreeze into the system will ensure the system is adequately protected. For me personally, doing so makes me sleep better at night knowing I won't end up with a $5K - $10K bill for a freeze damaged engine come spring. In short, the juice (end result) is worth the squeeze (extra effort).

Moving past the end result my major concern with doing this method would be, how do you plan to catch and dispose of all this antifreeze you plan to run through your system? Just because some of these products say they're non toxic doesn't mean they're safe to drink, just dump on the ground or pour into the sewer system. The last thing I personally want to do is kill off the local wild life or the neighbor's pet taking a short cut winterizing my boat. But that's just me, I'm sure others have different opinions on this.

Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate and you are quite right on your comments. May need to rethink about it Thanks

[JDC02SANTE]

Hey jpwhit, any chance you could you slide up to Michiana tomorrow? Say, around 1 pm-ish? Planning on winterizing my boat and I'd love to know how to drain it in less than 5 minutes. Heck, it takes me that long just to stare at the motor while I down my first beer (or whisky) while I'm hooking up my hose and bucket transfusion method. I know, different scenario, just kiddin'.

Mz3bo, I've only had my boat a few years and I've only ever "sucked in" antifreeze (about 5 or 6 gallons), so I'm nowhere near the person to tell anyone how to do it properly. It stays in a barn in the winter, but it isn't a heated barn by any means.

[Mz3bo]

Quote removed by Admin for not following the Guidelines for Quoting Previous Posts in a Thread.

So are you saying you never opened a plug ? What engine do you have, is it fresh and raw water system (hybrid) ?

[JDC02SANTE]

Mz3bo, Nope, I never have. I have an '02 with the GT40, so fresh/raw water system. It was a one owner boat before me and he had already installed an elbow after the strainer that I use to connect my hose to that I stick in the bucket to draw the antifreeze from. Pic below is not my boat, just a similar image I grabbed off of the interweb.

PS, don't quote each time you post directly below who you are replying to, as the Admin will take your keyboard away. Notice the quotes keep getting deleted. Just and FYI.

[kopp210]

I always just sucked the rv antifreeze until I could see pink out the exhaust and called it good. Never pulled plugs and never had a problem.

I would always trust antifreeze over trusting that the plugs are going to drain every once of water.

The new pcms have a slick quick connect manifold with the drains routed to one location. So I do now drain first, then suck. When I do drain I find last years antifreeze. And some of the hoses barely have liquid come out and some drain for minutes. So to me that shows how liquid can hang around in corners and low spots and just reinforces the need for the antifreeze.

You really want to trust you drained all the water out and that no debris blocked some little 1/4” hole? Or just flush it with antifreeze?

Give me the juice!


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[NBaas]

I agree with kopp210, but if you think about "wort case scenarios"... Water could get trapped in part of the cooling system (rust flakes, thermostat not opening, external heating core hoses, etc.) so just because you see pink, it might not mean you are GTG.
I am a very new SN owner (2001 open bow) but have been terrified every winter with my previous boats (stern drives). This year I ran it with a hose attachment to the engine until it reached operating temp, drained and picked, and then sucked 25 litres (5+ gallons) of -50 degree Celsius (-58f) rated antifreeze (it will get to -35 Celsius in the winter here). I also physically blew the heater core hose until all the water stopped coming out before the antifreeze. I will still wake up in the middle of the night when it is cold and worry.

[jmo]

Drain first, then anti-freeze, sleep soundly all winter.

1. the cooling system goes from a 1” diameter hose to reservoirs in the block and the manifolds where it will mix, so how do you know what % is in there?
2. How do you know for sure your thermostat is in the open position and routing AF into the block?
3. If your wrong it’s a $5 - 10k mistake and potentially a lost season waiting for a replacement engine, the latter being my bigger concern.

draining the water first is not hard, spend the extra 30 minutes and be sure!

[charlesml3]

There is no reason to drain first if you're going to suck in gallons of antifreeze. The antifreeze will displace the water.

[MN Ryan]

...says the guy from NC.

[charlesml3]

Well I understand how engine cooling systems work. In the normal course of operations, the raw water pump and circulation pump bring cold water into the engine to displace the hot water. This is how the system keeps the engine from overheating. The system works exactly the same way to draw in antifreeze to displace the water. It's all the same to the system.

[MN Ryan]

Just giving you some crap, dude. Chill. Those of us who regularly experience -20 F temps fret about things like this.