Trouble With Warranty

[Priestlaker]

Purchased a new to me 2021 GS24 last spring and used it all summer. What a great all around and comfortable boat.

Unfortunately, in mid August I hit a rock and bent my keel/ tracking fin. They call it a keel even though it is only about 6- inches deep. It wasn't bad enough to really cause tracking issues so I used it for the rest of the summer (after replacing the prop).

I took the boat into the local dealer for keel replacement and while they were removing the keel the tech noted that it was glued on too tight and a strip of the fiberglass under the keel ripped off with the gelcoat. The 4 bolts that hold the fin in place were not damaged and the holes that they go through were not distorted. The gelcoat was not cracked or damaged around the keel before or after removal, it still looks fine everywhere except under the fin.

The dealer was sure that it would be covered by the extended warranty but it was denied. They appealed and it was denied.

I called customer care and I have yet to hear back.

I have attached a photo of the damage. The estimate from the local dealer is $8,700 to repair the glass and gelcoat under the keel so I hate to pay that if it should be a warranty issue.

Has anybody had any luck with appealing to the warranty department? I feel if it was damaged from the impact that it would have at least had some gelcoat issue around the fin or messed up the bolt holes. It was still fixed (with the adhesive ) to the bottom of the boat when it was ripped off (due to it being stuck on so tightly by the adhesive). If it was damaged from the impact I would think that it would have come off easy.

Long post. Just a bit frustrated with the manufacturer and hoping for a solution

[jpwhit]

Extended warranties are often offered by third parties and aren't typically very good. They tend to deny a lot of stuff because the end users don't have much recourse other than to take them to court, which is often not worth it. And the warranty companies know that, which is why they do it. Is this a warranty offered by a third party?

Another possibility, is the warranty company thinks the dealer screwed this up. Which may actually be the case. The fins are attached with some pretty solid adhesive in addition to the screws. For removal, they should have heated the fin up to a fairly high temperature to soften the adhesive. I bet they didn't do that. The problem is they can claim they did and there really isn't anyway to prove one way or the other.

That may sound like a lot of money to fix the issue, but I bet to fix it right a good bit of the gelcoat around that area needs to be removed. For the fiberglass to be strong, you just can't fill in the missing part right under the fin. The fiberglass fibers need to be continuous out into the surrounding area.

If it is a third-party warranty, have you talked directly to the warranty company yourself, so you know if they think the dealer screwed this up? Also, does the warranty say it'll cover damage from hitting things in the water?

In most states, you can take people to small claims court yourself without a lawyer for up to about 10k in damages. That may be the way to proceed if you're convinced this should be covered based on the warranty policy documentation or take the dealer to small claims court if you end up thinking they botched the repair by not heating the fin before removing it. Saying the fin is "glued on too tight" is nearly an admission of fault. There is no such thing as a fin like this being glued on too tight. The more solid the better.

[jpwhit]

Actually, maybe you shouldn't mention anything to the dealer about if they heated the fin or not. If they don't know how to do this kind of repair correctly, if you ask them to document all the steps of the procedure they used to repair the fin, they may not be smart enough to realize they should have heated it and not list that in the procedure. Then that can be part of your claim at small claims court.

[Priestlaker]

It was actually a transfer of the original warranty. I don't think that I would do the small claims court thing. I asked if it could have been related to their mechanic and they said no way. It would be a lot to prove, and I think that I need them to do the repair so I doubt that it would be a good idea to get into a battle with them.

In addition, the service scheduler is really bad about getting back to me (the boat has been there over 6 weeks) so getting a detailed description of the technicians removal of the keel would most likely be impossible.

Still hoping the warranty will cover it. This really puts me in a bind with the dealer/Nautique. Unfortunately at this point I have to get the boat before the repair as it's been there so long I need to get it up to my shop before it snows in.

Thanks

[Scooter G]

Sorry to hear your dilemma.
I had a similar melt down removing a cracked tower mount base on our old Supra, it took a big gaping chunk of gel and fiberglass with it. jpwhit wasn't near by to give me the heat it up hack. To make matters worse it was right on the center line of a red & white color change. I fixed it myself in several stages, and I will say it was near on perfect from 3 feet away.
That rip is no where near an $8k repair, especially where it is sight unseen. I would imagine that the dealer has pulled enough glued parts to know not to beat things off with a hammer (I was a novice in this category). I do feel they should take a large portion of the responsibility here. With all that said, this is not out of the DIY realm of things if you wanted to tackle it yourself. If not, I would find a shop to do it for a quarter of that price. It's white, and it sits under some glue/sealer and a fin. Matter of principle, small claims court is an option, but I'm thinking future experiences with this Dealer will be tainted...

[Scooter G]

In addition, the service scheduler is really bad about getting back to me (the boat has been there over 6 weeks) so getting a detailed description of the technicians removal of the keel would most likely be impossible.

Find a new Dealer, you sunk some coin into that boat new, someone will want your future business.

[Priestlaker]

Thank you for the replies. I will look into other options as well for the fiberglass repair.

If I did it myself I would also be concerned about getting the keel back on there and sealed up. It sits on a lift during the summer but I sure wouldn't want to make things worse by letting water get in there.

Not a lot of dealers up here in North Idaho, a good relationship is good to keep, plus I really don't know if it was their fault.

[bturner]

I would also find out who is doing their Gel Coat work and other shops up there as well. Pictures are always difficult to tell exactly how bad something is or to what extent the damage is but from here it doesn't look like $9K of damage. Or maybe it is when the dealer includes transportation to/from the gel coat shop, their time to reassemble, a 30% markup on the gel coat shop's work and lunch for everyone.

It's without a doubt down to the mat but it would just seem you could recreate the layup structure with glass mat then respray the gel. This is after all under the tracking fins with a layer of 5200 between the fins and the glass. I would think the 5200 alone would seal off whatever glass work is done beneath it.

Time to get a couple quotes from the best shops in the greater area. Heck, if we were all local Scooter G and I would probably be doing this over beers this weekend in the garage.....

Then again, I could be completely wrong on this.

[wayoutthere]

I would not use 3m 5200 to reinstall the the tracking fin. Use 3m 4200 instead, 4200 is a sealant and adhesive just like 5200 but 4200 is removable.

If your in florida bring it to my house and i'll fix it for 1 tube of six-10 (30 bucks) another 20 bucks for extra static mixers a tube of 4200 and i'll use my own sand paper.

To be clear you really don't need gelcoat repair your just repairing/leveling the surface the tracking fin is screwed to.

In the future use brake cleaner from the auto parts store to loosen up the 5200, swing in to lowes, go to plumbing and pick up composite shims or toilet shims (plastic)
and a couple plastic 2 inch drywall tape knife. ---with a hammer tap a shim between the tracking fin and hull just a little and spray some brake cleaner, tap it in a bit more and wait for the popping to start. It will sound like that cereal snap crackle pop, when the noise slows down give it a tap and repeat until the tracking fin fallls off and hits your head.

(It's the hard and fast removal of the part with 5200 that takes gel and glass off) so take your time and let the shim do the work a little at a time

Don't pay 8 or 9 grand for a 2 inch by 5 inch repair it's not the space shuttle, swear to god these guys are theives tell em to eff off and fix it yourself for less than 70 bucks

i'll set up a mock removal and snap some pictures tomorrow on 1 of my boats, this repair is very simple with only a few parts being important but still very easy, if you really want gel ask naautique jeff what color it is and order some gel coat paste from spectrum.

hardest part of this is dealing with traffic to pick up the supplies.
6 ten is waterproof thickened epoxy and is ideal for this exact job, even tho it's epoxy, if it is prepped right post cure gelcoat will adhere without issue but like mentioned this repair doesn't need gel as it's not cosmetic. Spend the 8930.00 you save on a new set of clubs or a tennis bracelot for your wife, or a golf cart with a gsxr 1000 engine in it and tear up the streets in your hoa

[wayoutthere]

You may need a steel 1 inch or 2 inch drywall tape knife/putty knife to get started but with steel you just have to aware of your tapping it in because steel will cut the gel.
wood composite or plastic generally works and doesn't cause damage.
plastic razor blade kit from ace hardware 1.78 and brake cleaner to remove old adhesive.
cut your bondo spreader to fit the recessed channel the tracking fins ars installed in to spread the 6 ten.

sand real good with 36 grit so the 6 ten bonds ( epoxy relies on a mechanical bond, if you don't sand, it doesn't stick)

the 6 ten can shrink a bit, wait 18 hours, wash off the blush scuff with 36 grit and swipe on more.
the blush feels like wax paper, garden hose, a rag and 20 seconds later the epoxy will be squeeky clean and ready to scuff.

Last bit of sanding may not be neccessary but you if you do start with a high grit like 320 and go up to 600 or 800 to finish before applying 4200 and the tracking fin.

Easy job 30 minutes two times over 2 days and yor back in the water.

[Priestlaker]

Thanks Wayoutthere. Those are great instructions. I would pay a lot more than $50 for you to repair it, but we couldn't be much further apart.

I am still hoping that there is warranty coverage. I took a few more pictures when I picked up the boat and the keel was attached by the adhesive and 6 very short screws that only have 3/4 inch going into the hull. It's actually pretty darn small, 2.5x9 inches.

It looks like there was not really any fiberglass removed with the keel ( I thought that there was) so I am wondering if I can skip adding fiberglass.

My biggest concern (although if I knew what I was doing there may be other things) would be getting the gelcoat sealed up well on the side with the chip that goes right up to the edge.

[bturner]

I think wayoutthere is using the epoxy to build up and seal the area with the exposed glass. The 4200 would then provide the adhesive and additional sealant layer. You should end up with a bead of 4200 that will go completely around the perimeter of the plate which should seal that area completely.

It's been a decades since I last worked on anything this deep but I am surprised by what I'm seeing in the hull layup. I would have expected to see some type of barrier material, then several layers of woven mat before getting to what would appear to be chopped long strand mat which is what that looks like to me that's exposed. That and it may be the pictures but it kind of looks like an air pocket may have been there or possibly the glass wasn't properly wetted out.

Again, I could be completely wrong as I haven't paid attention to what the layup schedules are these days but this doesn't look quite right to me. I would want someone from the factory to look at this in person before accepting the denial of the hull warranty claim. This is after all a Covid hull and things happened quality wise during that period.

Below is what I grew up with and have seen on boats I've repaired. I'm not seeing the layers of woven mat here but hey, maybe they don't do that anymore. The last one I helped out with had a sizeable chip come off from pulling the exhaust tips off the transom of a 90's ProStar. On that one we had a chunk of the gel coat pop off about the size of a quarter. Below the chip was woven mat, not chopped strand mat. But then again, that was on the transom.

[wayoutthere]

bt, it doesn't look quite right because Lamination footage is a scheduled tour with the ceo's in hard hats lying to the cameras, the laminate crew is doubled up and the procedure is slowed down to show attention to detail and exacting tolerances found only in brand x, "let's go over to fit and finish to see how the the blluetooth and stern thrusters assist in steering"

("because you don't want to see foam blowin and caulk smearin that realy goes on, it blows exacting tolerances out of the water")

Chopper gun, production, bubble rolliing crew misses spots here and there like every other manufacturer, not at all how you me or anyone else would lay up a part or a boat for ourselves.

That 96 i got cut open doesn't look right from the inside but considering the hull relief pockets and recesses there was changes in the procedure so csm is visible where you normally think there should see woven or bi ax, not saying it's wrong, csm does get in where bi ax won't.
There are areas of what looks like dry csm on the 96 too.

[Priestlaker]

Thanks again. Although I am happy to support a local business for their expertise, after reading your posts the idea of fixing it myself is gaining traction.

Just to clarify your directions, would you just repair the area that I have circled in blue with the epoxy x2 and then a nice thick layer of 4200 under and around the keel on installation?

It looks like sanding the perimeter of the fracture would be difficult due to the rough edges but I could sure try. I imagine it would stick well to the rough fiberglass.

Would you just fill in over the 2 center holes and then just run the center screws through the new repair? I imagine a thread sealer would also need to be added to the screws too.

Thanks again. Very helpful information.

[Scooter G]

Just out of curiosity, have you considered an insurance claim?
I filed a $14,000 claim a few years ago, and my rates didn't bump, marginal COLA increase.
Nautique warranty, they are usually pretty good at picking things up, but you are in a grey area aka hit a rock. Thinking dealer did a sub job on removal, but given the pictures and questions on quality of the hull, maybe not avoidable. I would keep pushing on them, you've got a little time here before ice melts in the Spring.
Really good input and suggestions here, good work. Anxious to see what comes of this.
I think I heard bturner say that if you pay for his flight & lodging, he would make this go away...