Faria Speedo (again) - 2004 196 Limited

[Bill]

Great work! I will be interested in seeing the test results.

[SilentSeven]

i have a spare pitot gateway - it's my get out of jail free card in case my current gateway dies. What sort of testing did you and TechBeer have in mind?

[TechBeer]

Just a quick update. I'm looking at several approaches to cover the different configurations of these boats around 2004 and 2005. BTW, I still contend that many "failures" attributed to the gateway are actually failures of the gauges, which is a pretty easy fix (per my previously posted video). However, there is no question the possibility of water intrusion into the gateway if the pitot tube seals fail. Having taken a pitot based gateway apart, the seal is completely dependent on a couple of O-rings. And we all know how well that went for the Space Shuttle program..... In no particulate order:
1. I think one possible fix is to replace the pitot gateway with a newer paddlewheel based one. The wiring to several connectors is different though so some modifications to the cabling would have to be made. The advantage of course is that you don't have to open the gateway.... However, I have not really seen that the newer gateways fail so there might not be that many on the market.
2. For those that have pitot gateways mounted in the transom, I'm looking at a circuit that would take in a GPS signal and drive the speedometer signal inside the gateway and hence the older speedometer gauge. Biggest challenge here is mounting the GPS antenna in a hidden location, ideally under the hatch. I'm not sure the GPS signal would reliably penetrate the hatch cover (fiberglass + upholstery). And I doubt most folks want an externally mounted antenna at the stern of their boat.
3. For those boats that have the paddlewheel fitted, I'm looking at a similar circuit that takes in that signal and drives the speedometer signal inside the gateway. If you have a factory PP system then I believe their is already a paddlewheel fitted that is connected to the PP box. This signal would have to be routed back to the transom and into the gateway. For those that upgraded to PP Stargazer the scenario is similar. Would have to get the PW signal back to the gateway.
4. For those that don't have the PP system sgregg has looked into a transom mounted paddlewheel that could be installed, potentially where the pitot "stalks" are. #3 could be used in that case.
5. I have not run into any boats that have pitot tube gateways that are mounted up by the helm (i.e. under the dash), but I guess they exist? Perhaps a 2004/2005 direct drive SN? In that case if the paddlewheel signal is present (for the PP) then running it into the gateway would be pretty simple since it's all in one place. Again, you need the circuit from #3 inside the gateway.

Anyways, it will take me a month or 2 (winter months here in the U.S.) to sort all this out. I will post as I make progress. I might be looking for test subjects when I get it working. Unfortunately (or fortunately) my boat is a 2006 SV211 without the pitot tubes so I don't have this problem... :-)

[SilentSeven]

If possible, I think the best solution would be one where you a / don't need a new model gateway as they are quite difficult to obtain and come in various versions and b / can be done without having to open the existing pitot gateway box for a retrofit. An external signal processor that feeds an existing pin on the pitot gateway would likely be the least invasive. Are we lucky enough for the existing pitot gateway to support that configuration?

I like the paddle wheel and GPS options the best.

The paddle wheel option feels like it might have the most uptake as I suspect a large % of these boats have a paddle wheel factory installed. If the paddle wheel solution is to simply add some sort of signal T near the PP under the helm and run under a wire along the gunnel to the gateway - that's pretty simple.

I also wouldn't be opposed adding a GPS antenna in the stern especially if I could vertically tuck mount inside the boat in one of the exposed gear storage areas. Would you visualize an antenna like this? https://www.thegpsstore.com/GPS-Unit...C-Antenna-Only

Re helm mounting of the gateway, we'd need someone with a vdrive to comment. I'm 99% sure that all the direct drive boats had the gateway in the aft trunk. Don't know how it's done for the v-drives.

I'd toss my hat in the ring as candidate tester. I have a spare gateway, factory gauges and a PP Stargazer that includes a paddlewheel.

[sgregg]

Here is a pic of the paddlewheel on the stern of a 2004ish 226, not sure if this was a typical V-Drive configuration or a 226 only thing

[SilentSeven]

NautiqueJeff has seen prolly every possible boat combo from this era. I can't think of anyone better for a bit of information.

Jeff..three questions to you if you will.

First - for vdrives with pitot pickups, where is the gateway mounted?

Second - have you seen a factory boat with a stern mounted paddle wheel like sgregg posted above? I would have expected all factory installed paddle wheels to be thru-hull mounted.

Third - of the boats you have seen from the pitot/ gateway era, what % would you estimate have a paddle wheel factory installed? I can't recall of the top of my head if the PP was std equipment on limited and teams boats or an option. Pretty sure it was an option on the base model boat...

TIA for the help!

[NautiqueJeff]

Gateway mounting will depend on the year and the model. Some, like the 211, will be under the dash. Others will be at the transom.

I have never seen a factory-installed stern-mounted paddlewheel.

Any boat from that era that had PerfectPass from the factory (or even aftermarket, pre-Stargazer) would have a paddlewheel installed. Limited and Team boats would have had PP from the factory. SE boats had it as an option.

[sgregg]

Does seem odd - Nautique Parts has this transom mount labeled for a 2006-2008 226?

[SilentSeven]

TechBeer - Jeff's information above is helpful. Assuming everything else is equal, a paddle wheel type solution might be simplest and lowest cost as most of the boats should have a factory installed one.

From what I have seen, Limited and Team boats sold the most; Standard Edition (SE) boats were low percentage.

I think the case for a GPS unit is obviously accuracy over a paddle wheel but I would also guess a paddle wheel is an improvement over the original pitot solution. The added benefit of a paddle wheel is that is provides over water speed which can be helpful when currents are involved.

Curious what others think....

[sgregg]

Looking through the 2003-2005 Brochures, it shows the SEs all having “Analog Faria Gauges” with Perfect Pass as an option. Here is the speedometer wiring diagram from Perfect Pass for the SE’s equipped with PP in that time period- no Gateway to deal with.

[SilentSeven]

Interesting. Soooo.....I think we can safely assume the following are valid.

1 / a pitot kit would apply to the LE and Team edition boats only as only they have the gateway Faria gauges. SE boats won't have this issue as they run a different gauge kit.
2 / LE and Team edition boats should have paddle wheels factory installed
3 / There has been work done in the past to T off paddle wheel signals to a secondary device so that aspect look feasible
4 / on direct drive boats, the gateway is in the stern and the PP in the helm - any paddle wheel solution would need to run a wire from the helm to the gateway
5 / on v-drive boat, it's more likely the gateway and PP are in the helm and so a longer wire may not be required

What else am I missing?

[sgregg]

That sounds like a good summary - the 2003 thru 2005 Brochures seem to suggest PP was an option for SE/LEs (standard on Team’s) so if someone has the pitot Gateway and no paddlewheel, the transom mount Airmar paddlewheel (ST69-HS) listed on NP should provide approximately the same speed signal as that from the factory installed Airmar thru-hull product. Checking with Airmar Tech support, this particular transom mount was designed specifically for Faria.

Mark at Perfect Pass is working up a quote for the jumper to bring the wiring back to the Gateway from the thru hull paddlewheel, I will post that here once i have it.

TechBeer is hoping to have a circuit ready to test in a couple of months.