Any Zero OFF Experts here who can help ? SAN230 Help NEW install

[Mz3bo]

Hi,

I have 2010 Nautique 230 with the analog cluster (no Lcd screen on the right). My boat came with the Nautique cruise that nevers worked. It also has the PCM409.

I bought from Grealaskipper a Zero off Kit that came with the brain, the cable and two garmin 18x antennas. I ordered a PCM BUS cable and power extension cable from Zero off. Now, I see that there a videos where they update the zero off with a Ecom cable. Great lake says that it is not necessary and Zero off never replied to my email.

My question is : Is the zero off plug and play for my boat or do I need to do some sort of programming to the boat engine ECU or anything like that ?

Thanks

P.S These are the parts I have purchased

[teamseal]

Good afternoon,
Great lakes skipper would be one of the last folks i would purchase ZO from. also would not have purchased the two receiver system as those pucks are really obsolete and tend to early fail
So water under the bridge.
I will be available at Nautique parts in the AM till 10 am eastern if you would like to give me a ring i can walk you through the basics of install.


Jody Seal Nautique parts. leave a message and i will get right back to you. 910-247-6201

[Mz3bo]

Good afternoon,
Great lakes skipper would be one of the last folks i would purchase ZO from. also would not have purchased the two receiver system as those pucks are really obsolete and tend to early fail
So water under the bridge.
I will be available at Nautique parts in the AM till 10 am eastern if you would like to give me a ring i can walk you through the basics of install.


Jody Seal Nautique parts. leave a message and i will get right back to you. 910-247-6201

Hi teamseal,

Are you Jody ? I completely agree with your statement about buying from great lakes Skipper as I usually buy from nautique in Miami for all my needs. However I got this whole brand new kit for less than $500 so at that point it was a no-brainer for me and especially if he said that it will work and I would miss only one can bus cable from zero off to complete the kit. He also told me that the dual GPS antenna was not the best but depending on the boat sometime it may works very well some others it may not so I took a guess at it. I really appreciate if you can help me doing the install but this will not happen now because we live in the North and the boat is at storage. But it would be great to have a preview of how it's done especially if I need to order an e-com programmer or something like that or if it will just work as a plug and play.

Thanks for your help.
Bo

[NautiqueJeff]

Mz3bo Take Jody up on his offer! He'll get you straightened out.

I agree that the system you got is quite obsolete, but it is what it is at this point.

I spent the day today installing a ZO system in a 2002 210 that we're putting a brand new engine in. This is the newer, single-puck system, and I even had to contact ZO to be sure I had the wiring right. I am going to attach a doc they sent me that may be of some help to you. The last page was very helpful for me.

Call Jody though. He'll get you right.

Zero Off Installation Info

[jpwhit]

Those GPS pucks aren't going to work without firmware updates and then will need to be re-configured after the updates to be compatible with Zero Off. The firmware update will reset all of the puck configuration. The Zero Off head unit could, but doesn't update the puck configuration on power up. The head unit assumes the pucks have be pre-configured by Zero Off to very specific settings. A poor design choice IMO on the part of the Zero Off.

I'm 100% positive your pucks will have old firmware that isn't going to work properly, because Zero Off switched to the newer single puck design before the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover bug was discovered. Hence Zero Off never shipped any dual puck systems with firmware loaded on the pucks that corrected the GPS Week Number rollover bug. Without the updates, the pucks will sort of work sometimes, but then will go through periods where the speed control will be unstable and not lock into a consistent speed. Most of the time it's about 50/50 if it works or not.

Updating the pucks isn't terribly difficult, but it does take special software and hardware wiring harnesses. And there are some little tedious steps. So really beyond the scope of this forum to try and describe how to build the needed hardware and setup the software. With the right firmware on the pucks, this system still works quite well and our Nautique 200 at my water ski club is still using this system today. If you have a technical background and want to try and do the puck firmware updates yourself, send me a PM. I also may know of another option for getting the pucks updated. I think you're in Canada. I'd offer to do it, but it's kinda a pain to deal with international shipping and customs.

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware that's the 3-event ZO system designed for competition ski boats, not the Wake Edition which is what is typically used on non-competition ski boats. It'll likely do more than you need, but it'll have a much more complicated user interface and the modes available will be Slalom Course mode with GPS mapped courses, Jump Mode, and Trick Mode. If you're just looking for general speed control for wakeboarding, surfing, and recreational slalom skiing, the trick mode will likely do what you want.

[jpwhit]

And the common view that those pucks fail often is a little overstated because in a lot of cases people are attributing firmware version issues with actual puck failures. They do fail now and then, but it's not really as common as people think it is.

There is also another complication, that doesn't apply in this case, those pucks are made by Garmin and are model GPS18x-5hz pucks. And the manufacturer of the GPS chip used in the original GPS18x-5hz pucks was discontinued by the chip maker. So, there is a second generation of that Garmin puck that uses a different GPS chip. Garmin thought the new chip would be 100% compatible with the original design, so they didn't change the part number of the puck. The only way to distinquish the first generation GPS18x-5hz pucks from the 2nd generation is serial number range. This has caused no end of confusion around the transition between dual puck Zero Off and single puck Zero Off, because people started offering aftermarket Garmin Pucks for sale to help people "fix" the ZO when the GPS Week Number Rollover bug hit. But a lot of those pucks were 2nd gen pucks that didn't work correctly.

Surprise, they were wrong and it turns out Zero Off did not function correctly with the 2nd generation of the Garmin Puck. That's actually what prompted Zero Off to update the Zero Off system to the newer single puck system with a puck sourced from ECI.

[MN Ryan]

The depth of knowledge on PN continues to amaze me!

[Interjon]

Yep, I hope Jeff and Jody are around for a long time. Lot of knowledge between those two.

[Mz3bo]

And the common view that those pucks fail often is a little overstated because in a lot of cases people are attributing firmware version issues with actual puck failures. They do fail now and then, but it's not really as common as people think it is.

There is also another complication, that doesn't apply in this case, those pucks are made by Garmin and are model GPS18x-5hz pucks. And the manufacturer of the GPS chip used in the original GPS18x-5hz pucks was discontinued by the chip maker. So, there is a second generation of that Garmin puck that uses a different GPS chip. Garmin thought the new chip would be 100% compatible with the original design, so they didn't change the part number of the puck. The only way to distinquish the first generation GPS18x-5hz pucks from the 2nd generation is serial number range. This has caused no end of confusion around the transition between dual puck Zero Off and single puck Zero Off, because people started offering aftermarket Garmin Pucks for sale to help people "fix" the ZO when the GPS Week Number Rollover bug hit. But a lot of those pucks were 2nd gen pucks that didn't work correctly.

Surprise, they were wrong and it turns out Zero Off did not function correctly with the 2nd generation of the Garmin Puck. That's actually what prompted Zero Off to update the Zero Off system to the newer single puck system with a puck sourced from ECI.

Hi jpwhit

So much thanks for chiming in. I will send you a DM.

Bo

[NautiqueJeff]

jpwhit - Excellent information!! Thank you for sharing!

[jpwhit]

The Nautique Cruise is actually the exact same piece of hardware as the Zero Off head unit. It just has different graphics on the front of the gauge and completely different firmware loaded. There is protection to prevent this, but if you were able to load the Zero Off firmware on it and add the GPS pucks you wouldn't even need the Zero Off head unit you ordered. But as I said there is software protection that prevents you from being able to do that.

But the reason that's relevant in this case, is the wiring and connector that already in your boat is the same connector as on the back of that new Zero Off gauge. So, you may be able to simply unplug the Nautique Cruise gauge and plug the ZO gauge in.

I installed the newer single puck Zero Off in a Nautique 200 that had Nautique Cruise back August, but in that case I did have to switch out the harness that goes to the Nautique Cruise with the newer harness that came with the Zero Off system because I needed the new connector for the single puck GPS.

I don't remember if the original harness that was in the boat for the Nautique Cruise had the 2 plugs for the 2 Garmin GPS pucks. If it does, you will simple be able to just plug in the ZO gauge and the 2 Garmin pucks. Worse case, you'll just have to swap out the small Nautique Cruise harness with that equivalent harness that's behind the ZO gauge in the picture of the kit you got from Great Lake Skipper. Each connector on the Nautique Cruise harness will have the same connector on the harness that came with the ZO kit. The only difference in that case will be the extra connectors for the GPS pucks. I'm pretty sure I have the Nautique Cruise harness I took out of that boat back at my main house. Can't look right now because I'm at the lake house. But I'll see if I can find it when I'm at the other house and tell you definitively if you'll need to swap in the new harness.

You don't need any of those other cables that your bought.

So the base kit you bought should be plug and play without any additional parts. Worse case you'll need to swap in the new cable to add the GPS puck connectors if they aren't already there. Besides that, you'll just need to deal with getting the puck firmware updated and the pucks reconfigured. I'll respond to your PM about that.

[pauldixon]

I wrote DIY for updating the pucks on this site in the DIY section. Not very hard. I believe all (or most) of the configuration parameters are included within the document. The other option that is decent for Canucks is to send them to Perfect Pass and they will update them for a small fee. I didn't do this only because taking the pucks out of a boat is a PIA but you don't have that problem.