'Nother winterization Q

[chief351]

Winterized my 90 SN for the first time the other day. I did it the way the previous owner had done it the past 16 winters. By that I mean I did not drain the block and manifolds as per the manual. The previous owner advised me to do the following: Put a bucket underneat the tail pipe, put the fresh water intake hose into a bucket of antifreeze and let it flush it's way through the motor/manifolds/hoses etc etc. I circulated 20 litres of antifreeze through it and the bucket under the tail pipe filled with antifreeze after a couple of minutes.

My concern/question is did this sufficiently winterize the motor? It seems logical that it did and obviously the previous owner had no problems using this method. Just because the antifreeze was coming out of the tail pipe...does that mean the block was flushed? Or is it possible that the motor ran a bypass since it was not hot and the antifreeze just came out the tail pipe. Can anyone put my mind to ease?

Thanks in advance.

[NautiqueJeff]

RE:

Just do it right. Drain the block, remove the thermostat, and let the motor suck in the antifreeze. I would never trust the method you used, especially in your area!

[TRBenj]

Re: RE:

Just do it right. Drain the block, remove the thermostat, and let the motor suck in the antifreeze. I would never trust the method you used, especially in your area!

The proper way to winterize according to the PCM manual is to remove the RWP and pour the antifreeze into the block. That way youre not forcing any out the exhaust before the block is completely filled. I agree that the engine should most definitely be drained of water before backfilling- dont forget to drain it everywhere. That includes block drains, elbow drain, manifold drains, RWP, tranny cooler, strainer bowl, and the heater and shower (pumps, lines, etc), if you have them.

[SGY]

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Don't forget to treat the fuel with Sta-bil.

[WakeSlayer]

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I have used the method you are using for 12 years. Never had a problem. While I agree that PCM's way is failsafe, I just do not really see a problem doing the bucket trick. Particularly if you don't have a heater or shower to contend with. It takes way way less time, and if you mistakenly miss a plug, you have a big problem in the Spring. The one thing I did do was make sure the motor is at operating temp with straight water, so the thermostat is open and the heater is flowing, then do the bucket of green stuff. We hit -30*F. every winter here at some point, never had an issue. If you are worried about it test the antifreeze that comes out the exhaust.

Just my two cents....

[chief351]

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Thanks for the responses guys. When I spoke to the original owner he mentioned that he had never taken the plugs out and stated that to take them out at this time (17 yrs later) may present a whole other mix of problems. I trust the original owner's opinion because he has owned boats for 30+ yrs and the 1990 SN I purchased from him is in new condition.

Wakeslayer - you hit on my question/problem exactly with your comment about the thermostat. I recalculated the litres I put throught the motor and it is closer to 35-40. This took approximately 5-7 minutes of running time. In your opinion is this long enough for the thermostat to open? The daytime temp when I did this was 75-80*F. I would like to just "do it again" but the boat is 6 hours away stored in a barn. I was not planning any trips to that area until late November early December, that being said, if I have not flushed appropriately I can take some time off work and plan a trip down if needed. The boat will be subject to the same frigid temps you mention.

Thanks again
Chief 351

[TRBenj]

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If you are worried about it test the antifreeze that comes out the exhaust.

The problem is that its possible the antifreeze/water ratio may be different coming out of the exhaust than what exists in the block. I suppose if you ran 10 gallons of antifreeze through the motor, theres a good chance you'll have gotten it into the block though. Now the question is what type of antifreeze was used? The RV/marine stuff shouldnt be diluted, while the regular automotive (green) stuff should be (50-80%antifreeze is optimal). Hopefully you have the right concentration in there.

It seems cheaper and more straightforward (not to mention foolproof) to follow PCM's instructions- but thats just me. I find it best to remove the strainer bowl and RWP since it helps impeller life not to be sitting in a fixed position all winter. To each their own, I suppose.

SGY, nice catch on the fuel stabilizer. Its good to get it circulated throughout the fuel system- I added it to my gas this weekend even though I hope to put a few more hrs on this season. I should also mention that since I have an aluminum tank, I try to leave it about 3/4 full to prevent condensation. Newer boats with the plastic tanks (I think they switched mid-90) dont have to worry about that as much.

[M3Fan]

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Regarding the T-stat opening or not, if you drain the block and then merely pour antifreeze into the hose that feeds the T-stat housing from the RWP, it will fill the block regardless of the T-stat being open. The engine could be completely cold, and it doesn't matter. The T-stat lets water out, not in, to the engine. Yet another reason to drain- you take the T-stat open/closed out of the equation completely.

[WakeSlayer]

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All very valid points.

Chief, was the boat at operating temp ? That would be my only concern.

The last few years I recycle the antifreeze back into the boat a couple of times. I capture it and pump it back in so my ratio is fine, I use the green stuff, and it tests to 35-40* below zero F. I do this because of the extra distance the fluid for the heater has to flow, and because of my shower lines. I am perfectly confident that my thermostat is open at that point. as far as the removal of the impeller, and RWP, the antifreeze lubricates it anyway so I don't think that is really an issue. I always thought that the only trouble is if you left it dry. Correct me if I am wrong.
Even though I have done this for all three boats I have owned, my biggest reason for continuing to use this process is the fact that my boat has a big block, and is a V drive. The thing is a HUGE pain in the rear to work on. I also typically winterize when it is getting pretty cold out. Coupled with it taking a few hours just to change the oil, I am ready to be done by that point and find it easier to just run it full of the green and park it for a few months. I think both ways are right.
Great thread !!

[TRBenj]

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as far as the removal of the impeller, and RWP, the antifreeze lubricates it anyway so I don't think that is really an issue. I always thought that the only trouble is if you left it dry.

If the impeller is going to stay in the same position for several months (some vanes compressed against the pump cam) its probably better that the antifreeze is there to lubricate the rubber. I store the impeller dry (out of the pump) and they last a long time.

[tski97]

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I have two questions in regards to all that was said above.

1) If you do as PCM suggests and fill the block after the t stat will the exhaust manifolds also fill or will they stay dry after the draining?

2) If i do mine the other way by filling a bucket and running a hose from the perko flush kit I have, if the engine is warm and then the blocked drained, what could would be the negatives of doing this?

[chief351]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:

Again, thanks guys for the feedback. I wish the boat was closer to home and I would just drive over and perform some tests on it but it is 6 hrs away.

Wakeslayer - I don't know if the boat was at full operating temperature. The day was warm but the boat had not been run for about 15 hrs (previous day). There was heat coming off of the motor while flushing. And as previously stated it was only run for a few minutes. Will the T-stat open within 5 minutes of running time? I guess this is my biggest most important question that needs to be answered. If it is then I can start sleeping again.

FWIW - I did use prestone long life anti freeze (green). I did not premix it in the bucket, I figured the existing water in the block would mix it down on it's own. And yes I used fuel stabilizer and the tank was overflowing it was so full which happened by accident but at least I confirmed that it was full :grin:

Chief

[TRBenj]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE:

I have two questions in regards to all that was said above.

1) If you do as PCM suggests and fill the block after the t stat will the exhaust manifolds also fill or will they stay dry after the draining?

2) If i do mine the other way by filling a bucket and running a hose from the perko flush kit I have, if the engine is warm and then the blocked drained, what could would be the negatives of doing this?

1) The exhaust manifolds will fill as long as you hold the RWP outlet hose above engine level when pouring. I used to know the motor was full when I could hear the antifreeze entering the muffler.

2) I dont understand your question. Which method are you talking about? Are you filling the bucket with antifreeze or draining the block?


Chief, tough to say whether the 'stat was open or closed. Was the engine up to temp? I would guess that youre probably OK since it ran for 5 min, but its tough to say for sure.

[tski97]

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Sorry for the confusion. The question is if I warm the boat up, then drain the block, then put the hose from the perko flush kit to a bucket of anti-freeze and start the engine and run it until the engine is full, what is the down side to this?

[SGY]

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I'd sure hate to be worried all winter about my block freezing.