Follow-up. 93 Sport Nautique. New problem-help!

[thevogt]

Got my Sport back from Bell Lake Marine on Saturday. The marina said all checked well with everything else on the boat. They replaced the accelerator pump and cleaned out the carb idle circuits, tightened the prop shaft nut and water tested it. All pumps worked and my suspected trans leak that I asked them to check was a no-show. They put about an hour on the clock, so I had no reason to doubt them as there was no red oil in the engine area at all. Got her on the water for about 3-4 hours today to take the kids and cousins tubing. The technician told me he had to set the idle up (1200 rpm in neutral) because it was stalling going in forward if it was set to specs. Reverse was fine. Once it warmed up it was better, but would still bog pretty bad in forward gear. Checking for excess water after coming out of the water, while sitting in the driveway, I noticed my pool of trans oil had returned. WHAT THE.....! Could the high idle be causing unusually high pressure in the trans when putting it in gear, or do I have a front seal leaking as I originally suspected? Anyone have any advice? Do I bite the bullet and have the motor/trans pulled to replace the seal? Or has anyone had any experience with an additive that may cure my leak? Sorry to be long-winded, but I had to vent. My wife doesn't deserve to hear it on mother's day. Thanks.

Gary

[siuski]

I had a small tranny leak last year on my 93, had the dealer pull trany and replace the front seal (not the input shaft), ~$250 total. Drip gone. That idle is very high. Mine would do that after a hard pull, very hard into gear at that rpm, can't imagine that is good on the trany. Sounds like something else is amiss. They adjusted my throttle stop on the carb, and it seemed to do the trick...idles around ~500-600 rpm after it is warmed up. Have they done a compression check? I had other problems associated with the ignition, but they found I had almost 30 psi diferential between the cylinders so I had other problems...got them fixed, the boat runs cherry now, put 10 hours on this weekend, no problems. good luck.

[thevogt]

siuski-
I am fearful of a deeper trans problem than just the leak. There is no bog or lug going into reverse, only forward gear. The technician at Bell Lake Marine told me this before I picked it up on Saturday. He had the idle set to specs and it would die going in gear forward but not reverse. I seem to remember it always doing that, to a degree, since new. I have the 5.8L Pro Boss with the PCM 1.23:1 trans. I may fill it up and set the idle down and try it myself before trailering it for another repair bill. Thanks for your input.

Gary

[nms1991]

the motor should only idle between 600 to 750 in gear. on that vintage of boat to adjust the idle mixture and speed you need to disconnect the knock sensor. but remember to rehook up the knock sensor before trying to run the boat over 1000 rpm or more. Check to make sure your shaft turns over easily. more than likely the trans is leaking from the drain plug on t6he bottom of the trans, I would recommend removing the trans and having the plug resealed and check the input shaft seal for any damage.

[thevogt]

Where is the knock sensor located? The only electrical connection on the carb is the choke. The idle is set up because of the stalling going in to forward, but not reverse, gear if set to specs.

Gary

[siuski]

Just a thought, but more torque would be required from the motor to spin the prop in the forward direction due to the cup or dish. The prop doesn't really 'bite' in reverse. This could explain the motor bogging in forward and not reverse. Again just a thought, but I'd make sure the motor is in tip top shape before you chase the problem to the trany.

[thevogt]

siuski-
If it didn't run sooo well, I would suspect an engine problem. The thing will still get to 47-48 MPH in a few ticks. It only has 100 hours on it and, until it sat for a few years, was maintained perfectly. The trans leak is what is concerning me. I am also going to check the packing to see if it rotates more freely in one direction or the other. Thanks for your response.

Gary

[LargeMetalFan]

thevogt,

In regards to the bogging problem at idle speed in forward gear, I had the same problem last year with my '94 Sport 5.8 HO Pro Boss. I did three things to solve it, but I'm not sure which one was the key. First, I replaced the packing on the shaft. Someone told me that after several years of use and tightening the nut every year might put too much lateral pressure on the shaft causing it to bind. I also increased the idle speed (while in forward gear) to about 700rpm. The last thing I did was to adjust the fuel/air mixuture on the carburator. To do that, I had someone drive the boat in forward gear at idle speed while I adjusted each side until the engine ran a smoothly as I could tell by listening.

[thevogt]

LMF-
Thanks. I was leaning towards the packing myself. I'm heading to the garage in a few to check rotational resistance in both directions. I read somewhere on here that it should spin freely in both directions. Will post back after I check that. I'll have to wait until this weekend to put it back in the water to play with the carb.

Gary

[thevogt]

OK. I checked the rotational resistance of the shaft last night. It will turn both directions with one hand at the same pressure. That should eliminate the stiff packing theory. Now what? I'm going to put it in the water this weekend and play with the carb adjustments. Is it possible that the trans is going into gear too quickly in forward, thus causing a bog? Is there some kind of buffer system that is supposed to ease it into gear so as not to lug or bog the motor? Sorry to sound so ignorant, but boat transmissions are not my forte. Thanks for everyone's help in the past and hopefully the future.

Gary

[tryan]

i know that puppy sat for a while. see if you can get at the pick up screen to clean it and change the transmission fluid a couple times. there is a test port on the top of the trans. did the dealer check the port pressures?

post the problem on marinegears.com and see if mark will give you any insight. (they also have excellent prices on parts/seals ect)

is your transient response okay on the carb from say 2k to 3k? is your acceleration pump in good working condition? there are a few adjustments, but you should be able to hear (and see) it squirt with the engine off. you might have a little garbage in the circuit.

[thevogt]

tryan,
Accel pump is new. Response is awsome. The holeshot is great once it is in gear and idling. The problem is the neutral to forward slow idle take-off. If you just ease it into forward gear, it wants to bog like I'm towing a cruiser behind me. The tech at the marina said if it was set to 650-700 RPM idle in gear, it would die going into forward, but not reverse, from the neutral position. It is now idling at 1200 RPM when warm in neutral. That is the transmission's threshold of pain according to the PCM manual (thanks Jeff for the upload and midohionautiques for providing it to Jeff). If I can get this sorted out, I'll know how to deal with the trans leak. If this is an internal trans problem, I'll either have it rebuilt or get a rebuilt exchange. If it is just an adjustment somewhere, I'll nurse the leak for the season and deal with it this winter if it doesn't get any worse. I've got a baby coming in July and money is being redirected, so the season may end prematurely anyway. I'll try marinegears also and see if they can shed any new light on the situation. Thanks for all the responses everyone.

Gary

[thevogt]

What to do, what to do? Decided to go and visit Bell Lake Marine today during the grand opening bash they were throwing. What did I find, but a NEW leftover 206 Limited on a Ram-Lin trailer. Mine is going back to them in the morning to get the idle situation sorted out. They were doing their best to convince me that the 206 should be going home with me. I can't deny strongly considering it. My old '93 is about a year from free & clear, so I'm having a hard time justifying pulling the trigger with a little one coming in July. They (Manager and Sales Manager) did say that the work they did was guaranteed and to bring it back in and "we'll make it right". So how does this deal sound?

2003 206 Limited, Silver Cloud hull with a med blue primary and gray secondary stripe, 330HP excalibur w/5 yr warr, teak platform, Clarion CD, cover, battery safety switch, pop out cleats, bow speakers (6 total). MSRP stated at $43900 with trailer. Discounted to $39510. They are giving me $12809 for mine. Net diff plus tax & fees is $26701.

Share your thoughts. Are they fair or still a little too high on the leftover? What about my '93 value?

Just thought I'd share and hope for a rational 3rd party opinion. Looking at new, even leftover, Nautiques gets me too emotional.

Gary

[go46]

Babies are expensive, and it doesn't seem that you get much use out of your boat.

[thevogt]

go46-

I can see where that assumption could be made based on my postings. However, we have built a new house in a ski lake community and are 3 houses from the boat ramp. Hence, the renewed intrest in getting on the water. Prior to moving, we lived in an area that was inconvenient to say the least. Our best option was the Alafia river that led to Tampa Bay and is choked with traffic on the weekends. Not to mention my utter disdain for putting a Nautique in salt or brackish water. We now will have our evenings as well as weekends to enjoy the boat. If the deal is right on the 206, I would simply be swapping one payment for the other. But, I don't want to pay too much for what is essentially a 2 year old new boat. The other point about babies being expensive is spot on! Been there, done that. Thanks for your response. Have a great day on the water.

Gary