Anyone Have Trouble With Helm Control Ballast Valves?

[NautiqueJeff]

My new valves are about 1" from the thru-hull fittings. They couldn't get any closer. I'm going to pull the hose off of the thru-hull fitting and see if it will pull water from a bucket. If not, I'll do further diagnosis. I really hope the valves aren't restricting flow, but it sure seems like they might be. I'll know for sure tomorrow or Monday.

[mike-d]

valves

Jeff,
could you take some pictures of your valves? where they are located. I must say, the flowrite valves do not look very durable, I was going to add the valve switches to my boat and use different valves to control the flow, the switches work fine, the actually valve is pretty cheap. I must agree though, if its placed backwards, the water would push right through the valve, even if its in the closed position.

Mike
take some pictures of you flowrite valves also.

[NautiqueJeff]

Okay, finally got the pictures off of my camera...

I just removed the original valves and replaced them with the new valves. As you can see in the pictures, they are only a couple of inches from the thru-hull fitting/brass valve. Obviously, these were taken before I did any wiring.

[WakeUp]

Helm Control Ballast Valves

I'm interested to hear how the yard irrigation valves perform on the boat. I purchased one $10.97, 3/4" 24 VAC just to see if 12 VDC would drive it. I hooked it up in a utility sink and it works fine. It cuts on and off definitively with no leaks using an auxiliary battery at 13.5 vdc. But this is with pressure in the correct direction of flow thru the valve.
In the boat configuration, the pump will be pulling a vacuum on the valve. The valve is a spring diaphragm with a solenoid that allows pressure to equalize on both sides of the diaphragm. Pressure, or hopefully vacuum, will overcome the spring and allow flow.
Would this valve be substituted or an additional device in the stream?
Do you use them on just the aft tanks or the belly tank as well?
If these valves replace the helm control valves and are parallel wired with the fill pumps, this will simplify the system at a very reasonable cost.
As soon as I get my boat (SV-211) back from service, experimentation will begin.
To all, keep me posted on your successes.

[NautiqueJeff]

My plan is to move the valves from in front of the pumps to behind. I'll be doing this tonight or tomorrow, and hopefully this will solve my problem. My father-in-law, who owns the company who sold me the valves, feels that this should take care of the issue.

Do you use them on just the aft tanks or the belly tank as well?

I will be using them on all three.

[sperbet]

Can you let us know where to get the valves once you find out how well they work??? Thanks

[nautique210]

We have the same problem you are talking about with our helm controls. We have a 2003 SANTE. The really irritating part for us is that we have random problems getting the pumps to prime. We have got into the habit of starting to fill the tanks under power. The faster the better. That will prime the pumps and we are good to go. I also get disgusted with water that passes by the factory valves, but getting the tanks filled wile we are at the dock would save some time. Great boats, I'm sure CC will eventually address this issue. This is my first post, on what is my new favorite website. This is our 7th Nautique. Our first was a 1977 Ski Nautique, bought in 1981. Actually it was a 1977 1/2, for those of you who are CC history buffs. I'm a water-skier, my son and his friends wakeboard. You can tell by the boat we own, who has control when it's time to purchase.

[AbunDiga909]

I talked to CC about this and told me that there is a relatively new service bullitan out on this issue and if you are having a problem like we all are, we are supposed to bring it back to the dealer so they can mess w/ it and hopefully, try to fix most of the problem.

Only some of the early 05's will need to get their pumps adjusted if I'm correct.

Also, when I was talking with CC I don't think he relized how big an issue this was. I told him about this thread, and he went to it, and I sensed a shock of suprisement when he wen't "wow!" :lol:

[WakeUp]

Cost Effective Fix

Mike-d,
The Spartan valves NautiqueJeff is using are pretty expensive for the normal Joe. The valves (Rainbird, Lawn Genie, etc.) you had success with can be had at Home Depot or Lowes for about $11.00 per valve. Add another $4 to $6 for fittings per valve. So for less than $60 total the helm operated manual valves could be replaced and wired parallel to the individual tank fill pump circuits. You need to pump this up. Uuhhh - no pun intended.

[Christopher-W.-Becker]

RE: Cost Effective Fix

All,

I have a CC 216 air, and my valves have leaked by to fill the tanks since day one. So like others in the discussion, I have just opened and closed the manual blocking valves (which means opening and closing the engine cover). With five kids (yes five, 10 8 6 4, and 1) this can be a little tricky, but thank goodness for the two piece engine cover.

Jeff, check with the manufacture of your solenoid valves. Some solenoid valves use system pressure to help the valve open. See if a min opening pressure is specified. Also, as someone mentioned, the CV (resistance to flow) is higher for most solenoid valves because the solenoid is not that strong, so a smaller opening is needed to limit the pressure trying to open the valve while the spring is trying to hold it shut. I am currently looking for a low CV low differential pressure valved to consider replacing my “live well valves” with. However, given the choice I would go with a mechanical valve.

I have begun looking for a brass or possibly plastic ball valve which I can replace the operator (handle) with a stainless steel disk so that it functions the same as the original “live well” valves. Then I will mount these directly on the brass ball valves (keeping the mechanical valves at the tru-hull fitting.

I will also be checking with my dealer this am about Tech Bull. My dealer has been GREAT in this area.

I do know that they have a Tech Bull on the kepad and the pumps. Seems that the kepad OEM made a change and did not tell CC. So when you energize the pumps it turned everything off for a second. Imagine.....flying down the lake at 31 mph and going to pump out the tanks to make sure that there is no water for the slalom skiier you are pulling when everything cuts out for a second.....engine, radio, everything. Then it comes back on....HOWEVER......when it comes back on, the speedometer has recomputed zero and says you are doing 11mph (had to cut out the Perfect Pass for a Tower....the Mrs.). It can ruin a good pull. There is a simple fix to the wiring by the way. I had it done at the end of the season.

Will keep this thread posted as I work on the ball valves. Try one did not have enough throw or movement of the valve to get the valve fully open....need to give up some torque and gain distance...which means I need to change the seats in the valve.....possibly to teflon or similar.

[AirJeff]

RE: Cost Effective Fix

I did a little looking a few weeks ago on wake world for this stuff. I found a couple of options, what do you guys think?

Flow-Rite System1 - http://www.flow-rite.com/marine/system1.html
This one wouldn't be as integrated as just pushing your button...

RV waste valves - http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...m?skunum=26178
These are kinda pricey and large, but seem like they would do the trick.

The wakeworld discussion I got this info from was - http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...tml?1100109748

[NautiqueJeff]

RE: Cost Effective Fix

Hmm... Forgot to update this thread with the latest. I attempted to move the valves from in front of the pumps to behind, and ran into another problem. The hose going into the pump is one size, and the hose coming out of the pump is another! Because of the different size hose, I had to order new fittings for the valves. They should be in tomorrow, and I'll try to install them again this coming weekend.

[Christopher-W.-Becker]

RE: Cost Effective Fix

All,

Flow-rite is the OEM for the correct craft valves.

[AirJeff]

RE: Cost Effective Fix

I haven't seen the helm controls, but I didn't think they were mechanical like the ones I listed? People on wakeworld seemed to think the mechanical ones worked, but who knows...

[NautiqueJeff]

For those of you who haven't had the opportunity to take one of the helm control valves apart, take a look at the picture below. These valves are nothing more than a very thin piece of rubber held in place by a very weak metal tab. Any pressure placed upon this setup will certainly cause leaks. I just can't figure out why CC would have ever installed these valves. They certainly aren't up to Correct Craft's normal quality standards.