Perfect Pass Pro Sucks.. should I upgrade to Star Gazer

[Gabedance]

I just purchased an 07 SAN 220 with Perfect pass Pro and I HATE it!!!! It speeds up like 5mph in the turns and since I live on a small lake, by the time it actually levels off speed again, I get a couple jumps in just before the turn. It doesn't seem to do it going the other way around lake so much but I hate to wakeboard that way. What are your thoughts on the Star Gazer system? does it fix the problem? My dealer told me that star gazer sucks and I should go with ZO but I'm not putting out $2300. Star Gazer upgrade is $489. What do you think? what issues does star gazer have? does it really help in corners like PP says?
Does the star gazer have problems with overcast, etc. reading the GPS? If so, can you hook it up to use paddle wheel if GPS fails?

[TwinTip]

Not sure what mode you are in but depending on how tight your turn is, PP will increase speed, especially if you are using the paddle-wheel, in order to compensate for the reduction in speed. This is easily solved by bringing back the throttle when you feel the boat accelerate (usually as you are already in the turn) or you can even anticipate it, reduce the speed and then just give it more throttle as you exit the turn and need to get back to speed. No need to floor it, just give it some more throttle to easily bring the system back to the set speed and for PP to engage; it should provide you for a smooth transition that should not be felt by the rider.

I have not tried this with PP Stargazer and/or Zero-Off but I would image that you will end up with a similar response with these other systems if the turn that you are making is very tight. The boat does slow down and if you want to maintain a set speed, the system will have to increase speed as you are in the turn.

Out or curiosity, you mention that "it doesn't seem to do it going the other way around lake". Are you making your turns in the same direction as you go up and down the lake or do you turn clockwise as you go in one direction and counter-clockwise when you go back?

[bkhallpass]

I don't see how another speed control device is going to solve your problem. When you turn a boat, it slows down. Any speed control device will accelerate the engine to try and maintain the speed you set. After you straighten the boat back out, it will throttle down, but as you've noted, it is not instantaneous. It takes a bit to come back down to speed. I don't see how any other speed control is going to do any better than the pp for your issue.

I agree with the previous poster. The best way I've found to control the problem is just to take a bit off the throttle as you enter a turn to disengage the pp, and throttle back up to pp control after you complete the turn. Also prevents your rider from being whipped around the turn really fast.

You can set the pp in RPM mode. It will maintain RPMs, not speed through the turn. This will give you a little more consistency through the turn, but a lot of people, including me, don't care for operating in RPM mode.

BKH

[Gabedance]

I understand that the boat will slightly slow down in a turn and therefore increase engine to maintain set speed but that is not what the Perfect Pass system does. I'm a controls engineer so I fully understand all the logic of the overshoot and then reaching steady state control speed but this is not what the Perfect Pass Pro system is doing. It is totally from how the paddlewheel is mounted. I checked with a GPS and going 21mph (which PP Pro says is 19.5mph), the boat increases speed up to 25mph in the turn. That was checked by using a handheld GPS. It speeds up so much it slings you on the wakeboard and you can barely hang on if on the outside. It only does it going counterclockwise around the lake. I didn't check with GPS but if you go clockwise, you can tell the difference that it isn't doing it at all or definitely doesn't do it that much. It is obviously a fail design in how the speed is measured.

This isn't an extremely tight turn, just a slow 180 turnover the lake.

About adjust the manual throttle adjustments.... Why do that, then that is defeating the purpose of having speed control.... I might as well only drive the boat manually at that point. And especially in a small lake like mine, I might as weel drive it manually.

[Gabedance]

The RPM mode is aweful.... I tried it and when you start it takes over at like 10mph then you have to increase set rpm way up till boat planes then hurry to reduce set point otherwise you will end up doing 28mph in no time.

[hourglass]

on perfect pass mech and dbw and z.o. a good driver will play with the throttle around turns or d-ups. i personally don't like pp on dbw system. i'd rather have new z.o. dbw or mech. pp. just get to know your boat better. on an '06 we used to just pull the throttle back and accelerate out of the turn to allow the system to re-engage. you can also adjust the nn and kdw to get it compensating correctly.

[sstexan]

My '07 236 was surging really badly as well as missing the mark altogether. It was accelerating in 5mph chunks like you described. My problem was my pp was programmed for the excalibur motor, not my Zr6. After the firmware update it behaves much better...

[bkhallpass]

Understood. Wish I had some insight. I've had a pp pro in my boat for 9 years now and never experienced the inaccuracy or the extreme surges you describe. BKH

[RLS]

I upgraded my 07 211 to SG and it has been great. There are setting that control how fast it accelerates. Once I got it dialed in it has worked great.

[Rick]

A call to PP may solve the problem

I think I would call PP and explain the problem and ask what they suggest. They have always been really helpful and have probably explained the fix hundred of times.

[robertsmcfarland]

I agree ,call the man! Prefect pass is great to work with. You will have to use the throttle on any system in a tight turn .

[Gabedance]

Perfect Pass says its the paddlewheel and I should upgrade (of course, they what to sell more stuff) but it got me wondering when my dealer said that everyone was having problems with the star gazer and I should only get ZO. What are these problems or was the dealer just tring to sell ZO. I don't what to spend the money and still end up with the same issue.

[WakeSlayer]

I have a PP Pro, and I always take control of the throttle to turn around. Despite the size of the lake. What's the big deal?

Christ, pretty soon there will be an app to drive the boat and we won't have to do anything.

The art of driving a tow boat is slowly being lost.

[CradGen2]

G dance.

I think saying PP sucks is a little harsh, IMO. Not sure if you owned a boat prior to mass production of cruise controls systems, but basically you said all you previous boat drivers sucked worse.

I'm on my 4th PP system and more then likely upgraded each one once before trading in the boat, based on PP recommendations. They are little computers, so they keep refining the processes. Up until 2009 PP was the preferred CC (cruise control) system on the market, until ZO took over. I also have ZO in my 08 210 and love the systems easy of use. They both speed up going into a turn, which on a normal sized lake you would want for running double-ups. If a new paddlewheel is what is needed, I’d get one, but I don’t think it is going to solve your issue. {sidebar – thanks for letting me know I need to upgrade mine for my ‘07}. I also take over when going into turns and as soon as I come out, I let the boat take back control.

I have always had great luck with PP and I would call them AGAIN and discuss.

When has going cheaper ever been the right solution, mean only spending $489 on SG.

[swc5150]

To answer your question about overcast weather cancelling out the GPS connection - no. I have my SG antenna mounted under my windshield, just north of the dash pod, and nothing has ever caused me to lose reception. There's even a bridge to cross under on our river, and I still don't lose it - unlike satellite radio in a Tahoe:-(