PN Political Discussion

[gride300]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

i agree. if you're failing your failing. i don't agree with socialism or communism, but instead of the way we did bail outs, we should have just nat'lized the companies so we could reap some of thebenefits. i swear, if i could be president for 6months we would be in a much better state fiscally and in global perspective.-for myself being young, 24, im glad this happened now b/c it has taught me to respect my $ and realize it doesn't go as far as you think it will. i wish this whole mess hadn't happened, but i'm going to learn from it. everyone go watch bill maher.

[SNMike]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

i agree. if you're failing your failing. i don't agree with socialism or communism, but instead of the way we did bail outs, we should have just nat'lized the companies so we could reap some of thebenefits. i swear, if i could be president for 6months we would be in a much better state fiscally and in global perspective.-for myself being young, 24, im glad this happened now b/c it has taught me to respect my $ and realize it doesn't go as far as you think it will. i wish this whole mess hadn't happened, but i'm going to learn from it. everyone go watch bill maher.

gride300, be proud that at your age, you care about your country. I've ALWAYS cared since I was a teenager.

But if you nationalize companies.........that's the opposite of capitalism.

If you're watching Bill Maher for lessons on what to do, please DON'T. Watch Glenn Beck at 5 pm on Fox. PLEASE!!! Yellow_Flash_Colorz:

[gride300]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

i'm certainly no liberal. im independent. he does have some intelligent guests i like to hear from. i'm CNN man. lou dobs all the way. i will check out g. beck, i think capitalism is the only way to go, but rather than regulation there should be oversight so that greed doesn't lead to bad decisions. the gov't needs a new influx of cash. legalize pot/hemp. grow it, sell it, tax it. it would create lots of jobs and lots of revenue in the multi billions. it would also END all pot coming from mexico, and anywhere else for that matter.

[MARK-S]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

WS,
So keep spending and taxing, thats the answer? When will it stop?
Turn off the TVs and spend more time on the water doing the things you love.

[SNMike]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

i'm certainly no liberal. im independent. he does have some intelligent guests i like to hear from. i'm CNN man. lou dobs all the way. i will check out g. beck, i think capitalism is the only way to go, but rather than regulation there should be oversight so that greed doesn't lead to bad decisions. the gov't needs a new influx of cash. legalize pot/hemp. grow it, sell it, tax it. it would create lots of jobs and lots of revenue in the multi billions. it would also END all pot coming from mexico, and anywhere else for that matter.

Watch Glenn Beck just once budro, you'll be a Fox man for sure!! Yellow_Flash_Colorz:

[WakeSlayer]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft

Mark, We already spent it. now comes the hard part. Who is supposed to pay it back? China? Our grandkids? It is on us, unfortunately.
Please clearly understand my position. I do not like having to pay a ridiculously high tax rate. I hate it. I do not want us to bail any of these scumbags out. Not one. Not GM, not AIG, not any of them. They should all be allowed to go away. But what happens if some of these institutions collapse entirely?
No one is going to bail me out here if I screw up. All I did was maintain a lifestyle I could afford. It would be really easy to be upside down right now. I could well owe triple my home's worth, have tens of thousands in credit card bills, defaulting on loans. I am not, because I chose to live within my means. Unlike those greedy bastages.

Guys like Bernie Madoff should get the Chinese capital punishment. Out the back door of the courtroom to an alley, and the $.02 solution. Period. The lack of oversight, cronyism, and greed these guys demonstrated is unbelieveable.

Again, i do not want to be taxed to death. I do not want to give them one more red cent. However, in the interest of my grandchildren being able to grow up in a time that does not resemble the Dark Ages, I feel it is time to pay the piper. I don't see another choice.

[kinger]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft

The Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac lending "scheme" started with Barney Frank in the Clinton Admin. Why??!...........to farm votes. Period!

Actually it was the Bush admin, that had a proposal infront of them to have more restrictions put on Freddie and Fannie, the Repubs were the ones that believed everyone has the right to own a home and free flow of funds. Now the Dems did their part also pushing for lower rates and more tax credit for middle class home owners. We are not in this because of one political side or another. And to say no one is to big to fail that is crazy, bankruptcy doesn't just solve the problem. Although what AIG is doing is wrong paying out bonuses, you can't let them fail. Although you may want to believe that because of your emotions if you think logical then the country would be in trouble. First they insure a majority of insurance backing for small business (not mom and pop shops, but non public companies). If these companies get sued for discrimination or anything else the insurance offers some protection. Without that you would fail to have a majority of these businesses, which employee a majority of the upper middle class. Second if they fail we loose alot of credit with other nations who are going to have to help us out of this mess. AIG insures alot of these FDI assets, and foreign investors were told they were safe. The problem is that there are too many people that are acting on emotion instead of logic, which is understandable, but it doesn't make them right.

[WakeSlayer]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft

^^ which is why we need to bail these scumbags out. ^^

We cannot hit reset button here, guys. We are stuck.

[kinger]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft

Agreed

[j2nh]

The Glass-Steagall Act, which kept commercial banks from becoming involved in the stock market, was repealed under the Clinton administration. Pretty good youtube video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IE&h...Si7Rs&NR=1

AIG. AIG the insurance company is not in trouble, what is in trouble is the branch of AIG, based in London, called the Financial Products Division which backed TRILLIONS of dollars in Credit Default Swaps. Once the housing bubble burst many of the derivatives became payable and AIG had to pay. The money the US Taxpayers have given them has gone straight to banks all over the world. To let them fail would have meant that the banking industry would have been dead in the water.

In my opinion what the US Treasury should have done with AIG is a modified Chapter 11 a put itself in a position of being able to negotiate down those payments. Instead the Taxpayers, who now own 79% of AIG are paying off those contracts (swaps) at full face and it is not over.

When we get through all of this mess Credit Default Swaps need to be tightly regulated so this does not happen again. Democrats and Republicans both bare responsibility for this mess along with greed bankers and Wall Street investment houses.

[kinger]

The problem is it is to difficult to monitor the credit default swaps, because you don't know what is going into them, they are often issued as offshore entities in CDO's CDO's and CLO's. With much of the investment quality comming from agencies like Moody's, S&P, and Fitch it is dificult to monitor quality and investment. These swaps offer a pass through certificate with limited reporting regulations, you can't regulate them because they trade in a synthetic market. It is tough to decide what to do, but I agree something does need to be done.

The problem is the the "financial products division" gets the money to back these swaps from the other branches of AIG (i.e. life insurance, auto, ect...) that is how those other branches make the return to be able to pay out claims. So all of AIG is in trouble, but it is the guys in the "fiancial products division that are getting the bonuses.

[DanielC]

Too many people buying things they do not need, to impress people they do not know, with money they do not have.
And then too many banks willing to lend money on real estate, "because real estate values always go up"
It is not the democrats, or the republicans, it is us.
By the way, we control the price of fuel by our choices.
Also, know that the number one concern of any media outlet is RATINGS! Not your welfare. Jon Stewart wants ratings, Jim Cramer wants ratings. Fox wants ratings, CNN wants ratings. Your hometown daily newspaper wants ratings (subscriptions). The actual news, and truth is secondary to all of them.
The USA is in dire straits because we all are striving for the lowest immediate cost, with out regard for tomorrow. We buy the cheapest goods we can find, made overseas, and we indirectly choose to lay off USA workers, and then we wonder why those unemployed can no longer afford to use the products and services we are trying to sell.

[MARK-S]

The spending in the porkulis bill on global warming alone is what will tax your grandkids for generations to come. What a farce that stuff is. Carbon credits are a joke, give me a break.

[MARK-S]

RE: Layoffs at Correct Craft?

...?

[SNMike]

AIG. AIG the insurance company is not in trouble, what is in trouble is the branch of AIG, based in London, called the Financial Products Division which backed TRILLIONS of dollars in Credit Default Swaps. (swaps) at full face and it is not over.

The monies that came in the front door, and right the **** out the back door of AIG went not just to the UK........but to Germany, France (gotta love that) and about half dozen other small countries totalling billions. BS!!! Chapter 11.