Define a Personal Flotation Device

[Fwat220]

More Regulation questions for everyone to debate.

I recently was pulled over for towing too late in the day. The Arizona state law states that "it is illegal to tow a person on water skis, surfboard, or other similar device from sunset to sunrise." The fuzz pulled me over at 7:00. The sunset at 7:30. He said that there was no direct light on the lake. I have all the confidence in the world that this ticket will get thrown out in court, but I am pissed about it. Not to mention that when he was writing me up, five boats passed all pulling skiers. Very frustrating.

Secondly he told me he should have ticketed us for riding without a USCG approved vest on, but he let me slide because he is so nice. The Ariona state law states that "all persons being towed must wear a life jacket (PFD) or buoyant belt. Note, however, that buoyant belts are not approved by the U.S. Coast Guard. The AZGFD (Fish and Game) recommends the use of a U.S. Coast Guard approved, brightly colored Type III life jacket (PFD)."

So is the comp vest my friends and I wear legal in Arizona? Has anyone else had "sunset" issues as well?
Thanks

[skiswm]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

CA law I think is you have to be off 30 mins before sunset and all vests must state"USCG Approved" on the jacket. Most Comp vets are not USCG approved jackets, it's should be clearly written on the inside of the jacket.

[Fwat220]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

the vest we use are not USCG vests. No question about that, but are they personal flotation devices? I assume so.

[j2nh]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Competition vests are not USCG approved and but then neither are barefoot suits. No barefooting in Arizona?

Just make sure you have a USCG vest for everyone on board. Law as stated above leaves some room for interpretation.

[Nautiquehunter]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Silly boater you cant get away from the water cops. It doesnt matter if you are right or wrong its all
about revenue. Think of it as the cost of boating tax. They don't care if you are safe than or what time
the sun goes down just out collecting from easy targets.

[srhoffman]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Ok, a quick google shows that the official sunset time for your area (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php I did scottsdale, AZ) on Saturday 5/30 was 19:32 so if your friend at Fish and Game noted the time on your citation you can bring in a copy of the sunrise/set tables and slam the door on that one. I certainly understand the "spirit" of the law but as someone else noted, other states have a X minutes prior to sunset law...

Since you didn't get a ticket on the PFD I wouldn't worry too much about it this time, but if the law only "recommends" the use of a USCG approved vest I'd say that would be a slam dunk as well but I'm sure getting time off work to defend a ticket every time you get a ticket would get old. Of course, I'm not a lawyer but have fought and won more then my fair share of citations!

[Fwat220]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Well I go to court tomorrow morning and see what the judge has to say. I have the NOAA charts printed out or the month and the copy of the laws. Best case scenario he throws out the citation and answers my question about the comp vests with a "of course your comp vest is legal." Worse case scenario I find out the definition of "sunset" is up to the boat cops and the number of tickets they handed out over the weekend and I find out that according to the state of Arizona, "recommends" means requires. I figured they were just trolling for drunks on a Saturday evening and were upset when we were sober and had all the required equipment on board.

[jeepn]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

i'll have to check, but i'm pretty sure my barefoot suit is USCG approved floatation

[Hollywood]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

This mogel is USCG approved, most are not though.

[MichaelD]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Regardless of state, you'll have to have at least 1 USCG type I, II, III, or V PFD on board (or being worn). Inflatable Type V's must be worn. USCG approved PFDs will explicitly state they are USCG approved, PFD type, and USCG approval number.
Different states have different laws about what a towed skier/boarder must be wearing. If your state doesn't require you to wear a USCG approved PFD while being towed, you will be required to at least have a USCG approved one on board. Some states (NC in particular) has different rules if you're being towed by PWC or regular boat, with PWC rules being more stringent.
I know that my barefoot suit is not USCG approved, so I always count PFD's & toss in an extra USCG Type III if I don't have enough Type II (orange) ones on board.

As far as sunset goes... It takes the sun 1 hour to move 15 degrees of longitude. This means that it takes 4 minutes to move (sunset delta) 1 degree of longitude. 60 minutes of longitude = 60 NM. In one minute, the sun will move (sunset delta) 15 NM (a bit longer than a statue mile). ** 1min of longitude = 1NM technically only holds at the equator, but you can get the point.
At any given location on earth for a certain date, the time of sunset can be computed, and unless local statue explicitly defines it in some bizarre way, all the tables should stand up in court (getting them from NOAA vs 3rd-party will be better). The time of sunset isn't altered by trees, clouds, etc., however some states might have regs about what you can do when it is raining (but I've never seen any). You should turn on nav lights when it is raining though. I hope the judge tossed that one out of court for you.

I've got a Bimini & you can't see the white light from the stern when the bimini is deployed. I'm on a public lake & often take "near sunset" ski runs so I can have calm water. I keep the printout table for the closest city on board since Local Wildlife has verbally gotten on my case about the white light from the rear issue, even though it was legally pre-sunset. By knowing how long it takes me to ski & current time, and exact sunset time, I can compute whether the bimini needs to be folded prior to skiing. In VA, I know you can ski 30 min after sunset & 30 min before sunrise. In NC, we can ski 60 min after sunset & 60 min before sunrise, however there isn't much difference between 60 minutes after sunset & 4 hours after sunset in terms of the amount of light available. I draw the line somewhere between 30 & 45 min after sunset (somewhat depends on what high-level clouds are doing to available light).

PWCs must be off the water AT SUNSET. Nav Lights must be turned on AT SUNSET.

[Fwat220]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Thanks, we had everything on board to meet the laws. I have a pre-trial hearing in two weeks.

[gride300]

RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

in bama you can ride 30 min after sunet and 30 min before sunrise.

[MHayes]

Re: RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

in bama you can ride 30 min after sunet and 30 min before sunrise.

You need to recheck the Alabama state laws

http://www.boater101.com/Course/docu...Lstatelaws.pdf

It clearly says that "Skiing is not allowed from sunset to sunrise or during inclement weather."

[Fwat220]

RE: Re: RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Alright, so the judge says that sunset is defined by NOAA so the sunset that day was 7:31 and my ticket was thrown out. Victory! I now carry a NOAA almanac for Carefree, AZ in my boat. I am meeting with someone about the lifejacket question in two weeks. I will post that info too. So I suggest if you get one of these sunset tickets use the NOAA as a reference and get out of it.

When is there going to be a law fining people who powerturn?

[wake_fun]

RE: Re: RE: Define a Personal Flotation Device

Was the cop that wrote the ticket at your hearing? That would be great!