Skiers and Wakeboarders

[Grant_West]

This is a offshoot of the Mission Bay ski coarse thread.

I was introduced to to boating threw a friend, He was a hard core skiier with a 92 ski nautique. I talk more about him in the "stickers on you car" thread. I concider myself lucky to have learned from him. He taught me all the do's and dont's how to drive ect, I was drawen into the facts that there's right way and a wrong way to do things. And I wanted to know as much as I could how to do things correctley so I would be sure of getting invited back over and over. I also could see how he appreciated getting pulled the correct way. Mostly general boat edequite. This helped me out big time when I bought my own boat years later,

I bought a DD boat so we could Ski and Wakeboard. We love to do both. And I dont know why wakeboarder's in general make fun of Skier's. Its like there are 2 diffrent group's the younger cool boarder's and older straight laced skiier's. It seems as if alot of boarders look at skiiers like they are some out dated sport that not that many people do that doesnt deserve there respect. I dont know who came up with the additueds first.
It seems like there was a similuar battle when snowboards came on to the slopes. I gained respect for skiing threw learing about it and all the details surrounding it and threw my friend, Now had I not had that friend who knows if my additued would be the same as the people Im talking about above. And seeing how most of the boats these days have towers on them I think there alot more boarders out there compaierd to skiiers

So I can reconize the tension between skiiers and boarders created mainley threw being un educated, The boat dealer sells the boat's and dosent say "ok theres lots of un written rules be shure to look them all up and dont piss anyone off" If there was some sort of education program that everyone had to take to get on the water so they understood I would think the wally factor would drop by at least 1/2, Im not saying we need Big Brother to step in and mandate us, Is there somthing we as boaters can do to educate each other?

As boaters we seem to all want the same thing, flat water, A safe fun day in the sun and on the water where ever that may be.

[brit_rider]

RE: Skiers and Wakeboarders

Grant I can totally relate to this, I don't ski so much anymore but still enjoy it when i do; I also have to confess, am a much better skier than boarder.
it pisses me off so much when someone tries to knock skiing, I really don't appreciate it and am pretty short with them when they do. I admit i like to call it "duck swerving" as a bit of a joke but when it comes down to it i take it just as seriously as boarding and as i'm sure you know - theres just as much skill involved in running at 34mph behind your boat as at 21...

[Jesse1]

RE: Skiers and Wakeboarders

I slalom, trick ski and kneeboard. Also do quite a bit of tubing on a Super Screamer when the water's too rough for skiing. I enjoy seeing people using wakeboards. What I don't care for is PWC's. People get envolved in spinning around and forget that others are on the lake, too. They also really tear up the water where it's smooth enough to ski, even though there's plenty of clear water to ride on. We've had to report several riders who come too close and are generally reckless.

[Hollywood]

RE: Skiers and Wakeboarders

When pulling a boarder, I usually yield to skiers. When I'm trying to get in a set, I expect the same from the hardcore boarders, but it RARELY happens. I think slalom skiing requires smoother water than wakeboarding.

[Mikeski]

First off Grant thanks for starting a thread on a healthy topic.

It's funny I have been around this sport all my life and I have seen very similar issues between slalom skiers/trickers, skiers/sailboaters, skiers/fishermen, boarders/tubers (wait a minute, tubers have no rights) :razz: , etc. I have also seen rivals become compadres as things change. Through all of these issues it's important to remember to try to understand where the other party is coming from.

Way back when it was skiers/fishermen the root of the problem began as a few careless skiers cut some fishing lines out in the delta. The fishermen also claimed that the skiers chased away the fish. A few years later the skiers and fishermen found a common cause in keeping a speed limit out of the delta. Through the discussions we learned a little more about the others needs and seemed to get along much better after that. I learned to watch for fishing lines.

I feel pretty confident in saying that the basis for the "rivalry" between skiers and boarders comes from the desire to occupy the same space on the water. Unfortunately for boarders, skiing has been around longer so the skiers already have the first dibbs on some of the best spots. Now I think boarders and skiers can occupy the same space if they respect each other and allow equal time on the water. Another unfortunate fact is that the bigger wakes from wakeboarding tend to be harder on the shorelines. I found this out the hard way when in recent negotiations while I was trying to secure a small irrigation lake for wakeboarding from one of the delta agencies. When they found out I was mainly interested in wakeboarding not slalom or jumping the deal was off, based on the claim of increased erosion from the bigger wakes.

Personally, I feel that wakeboarders will end up sharing all of the best skiing spots as the slalom skiers children that prefer wakeboarding become bigger players in the picture. I see this starting to happen in some of the delta clubs. This will change the ground rules, sites will need to have stronger docks to handle the larger wakes, boats will be required to use bigger dock bumpers and tie front and back, and in some of the private lakes the shores will need to be fortified.

Until the skiers learn to embrace the idea of sharing the prized sites with boarders, I suggest we approach them like approached the mother of the first girl we dated. After all some will feel like they are giving up their first born so this approach should work. Most importantly don't expect that you have a right to anything. Keep in mind that even a drivers license is a priviledge not a right.

Gotta go to the boat show and look at the V-drive wakeboard boats since I sold my inboard waterski boat last year... evolution. 8-)

Mikeski

ps do I need to change my username? one friend has already made the suggestion

[sperbet]

First off I would like to say that I only ride, but I do have respect for slalom skiers, especially those of you who rip and throw up that big ol' spray. However I would like to dispell the myth that you need flater water to ski then to wakeboard. This is a big misconception and not at all true. We want the butter just like you guys and it affects our riding as much as it affects your skiing. I think as long as there is a common respect among us then there should be no problems. I'd much rather share the water with a couple of hc skiers then with some idiot who is pulling a tube around with his $60k SAN. Just my .02

[AbunDiga909]

SkySki is not affected by rough water at all. Even the pros even like a little ripple at least and not glass so they can see the water when coming down. Yet I'd still like the calm water just for the sake of the boat ride, not the skier. When I do ski however, its those 80K Cobalts with their tubers, along with the SAN's. Jetskiers I cannot complain b/c the wake is small and would be very hipocrytical (sp?) of me to complain about them. Yellow_Flash_Colorz:

[TylerO]

Is there somthing we as boaters can do to educate each other?

Hmmm, Grant you do have a way of getting the wheels turning. Kind of like a USCG Captain's certification but for watersports enthusiasts. Imagine an on-line watersports, general boating safety and etiquette course that would earn a certification. That certification could in turn earn you discounts on boating insurance and related accessories at participating retailers. Or perhaps it's simplier than that. Maybe a video containing the same information as above but the insurance companies distribute with their policies every year? It could be a win/win situation. Less accidents/claims for the insurance companies and better educated boaters. Any Entrepreneur's out there?

[mrese]

"Hate the person, not the sport." Hate I know is a little strong but it gets the point across. When I grew up on a large public lake in southern Va, we all used the water for pleasure and respected the others use. My dad and grandfather were big BASS Master competition fisherman, I skied and barefooted, other friends kneeboarded, tricked, and wakeboarded. We had jetskis, rode tubes, raced jetboats, grilled on pontoon, and on windy days, we enjoyed sailboating. We all lived on the lake and respected the sports, the homeowners, and the water itself. Jetskis are not bad and fishermen are not bad. Both can actually be fun. The actual skier (and driver) who tried to spray the fishermen was bad, and the actual fisherman who caught the skier with a lunker lure was bad. But for the most part, everybody had their own thing and we all got along.
From what I noticed, the problem comes when someone decides they need to feel good about themselves by dropping bucks on a boat and then expects the everyone else on the lake to respect them for their purchase as they travel thru like an umpa lumpa from the Wizard of Oz. I heard a fellow complain to the game warden about getting a speeding ticket in a no wake zone. His defence was, that was as slow as his boat would go. As the other boats and the beach at the campground got battered back and forth, the idea of bumping the throttle in and out of neutral never occured to him. Him, I consider a problem, not his adopted sport of choice.
Hikers don't like mountain bikers, deer hunters don't like bird hunters, four wheel drive folks don't like sport compacts, Marines don't like Airmen, and now it appears that boarders and skiers can't get past the animosity of each other. The odd thing is that people say Correct Craft owners are a family. From what Grant says, it seems that by pulling up with a tower to a group of 196s is the same sort of family relationship my sister and I had when we were younger before we grew up.
I for one don't like the idea of a regulated certification but understand some folks really need it. If you want to get educated, walk up to the folks, express an intrest, and learn what they have to say. I have seen threads where folks have done this about proper boat driving a course. We can all chip in and post diagrams or videos to answer each others questions. Lets help ourselves instead of waiting for someone else to do it for us.

[Mikeski]

However I would like to dispell the myth that you need flater water to ski then to wakeboard.

Sperbert,

Yes we all like the flat water to enjoy our sport. But there is another factor that you are not considering. It's the speed you are traveling across the water. A wakeboarder on a good cut might be traveling at 30mph or so, a good skier is probably traveling closer to 60mph across the water.

My specialty in 3 event skiing was Jump and I used to get irate at the slalom skiers that would forget I was jumping and make turn arounds sending wakes into the jump course. There is nothing like heading toward the jump ramp at 50+mph in a full cut intending to kick a nice 150' flight then hitting somebody's rollers just before the ramp. Luckily I never had a bad crash resulting from this but I have witnessed a jumper crashing just in front of the ramp, sliding over the ramp then being hauled off in an ambulance. It actually happened in a tournament caused by a careless pickup boat driver.

So skiers, jumpers, and barefooters probably have a greater NEED for the smoother water from a safety standpoint, however this does not necessarily mean that they have a RIGHT to the smoother water. Just wanted to clarify the difference between a need and a right.

Whoops, just thought of something else... sliders/kickers. This changes everything. I would really hate to see a boarder hit a wake and miss their bunny hop up to a slider resulting in a nasty face plant into a hard object. This is a perfect example of the need to understand the need of others!

Smooth water for all!

Mikeski

[1time17]

man i wish some of these rednecks were i live could read this thread.. i am one of three ski boats in my area and im glad to say they are all nautiques but anyway i have a problem with these fisherman who call the law because our wake is to big and we are messing up there fishing.. well im not enclosed on a lake so there are other spots these guy can fish. ive even got a neibor who complains about speed do you really want me to throw a bigger wake.

weve just got to learn that unless we dig our own lake weve got to put up with other people...

[sperbet]

good point mikeski. I didn't take ski jumping into account. I am aware that most people here know that you need flat wter to ride as well. however I have heard a lot of uneducated, or maybe inexperienced people say "oh you don't need flat water to wakeboard, you can ride in much choppier water."

[BASC]

Here in the UK we have a recognised licence, Sport Boat Drivers Award or SBDA. It is a very basic level and really only checks to see if the person taking the written test (multi choice) has read the booklet provided and also has driven a boat before by taking the waterborne test, which consists of starting off, towing, dropping and picking up a combo skier (not a boarder or tuber, strange hey) and returning them and the boat to the dock.
If you have any experience in boating you will pass the exam. All in all the whole exam can be taken in 1 hour with no additional instruction, personally not worth the paper it is written on. However once you have the certification it gets you a reduction on insurance so worth the outlay.
The really silly thing is that there is also a Royal Yatching Association Powerboat certificate that has at least 2 levels (that I know of) and requires you to attend a course (at least 2 days) it teaches you how to do things properly and safely, and here's the good part, this qual is not considered approriate for waterskiing by the British Waterski Federation (BWSF) as it does not require you to tow a skier!
Most of the owners I know would (and some have) passed both easily, but this highlights the problem of certification, 2 governing bodies looking after 2 different types of water users with incompatable certifaction.
As for PWC owners, NO licence required, just buy one and do it!!!.