New for 2011

[HS]

Does anyone know for sure whether the new nautique Tower Speakers with horn driver are an HLCD type speaker? I have read that unless you invest in HLCD speakers, that with previous tower speakers you weren't able to hear them when riding behind the boat. Is that resolved with the new tower speakers?

[Mikeski]

Highly doubtful that they are going to be HLCD or Pro-axials to properly call many of the non horned compression drivers.

In a conversation I had with Tim from Wetsound he told me the history behind the Wetsounds 6x9s. They were originally bound for a Nautique factory offering but they were cut from the options list somewhere along the way. Kind of sad that Nautique came so close to offering a good system then just bailed to go back to the same old crap from Polk. I almost bet that a boat with XS-650's in the stock locations would make more bass than a boat with the crappy sub and the crappy Polks, it would probably be close anyway. Also wish they would stop taking up so much space in such a poor location for the little 10 sub when they could make a nice custom ported enclosure in front of the driver and free up so much usable storage on the passenger side.

[EarmarkMarine]

This is what I was told but it was secondhand information. Roswell attempted an HLCD offering for Nautique but they ran into problems and so it has been put on hold until the issues can be resolved. While Roswell is respected for their tower accessories and support in that area, I'm at a total loss as to what they could bring to the table in the realm of HLCDs. They clearly are not an audio company and none of their past tower products have demonstrated an understanding of audio. If they do offer an HLCD product are they going to power it properly and locate the speakers on the tower in a position that doesn't peel the ears off the rear cockpit occupants?
Pertaining to Mike's comments on Polk...while Polk actually makes some very good sounding products, all applicational integrity is cast out the window when put to task in the context of the boat manufacturers' original equipment. For example, a subwoofer that is designed for small boxes that is used in free-air. A good sub stands no chance.

David
Earmark Marine

[Careless]

I'm new here, so hi everyone!

I've just ordered a 2011 210 sante pretty excited about it. We optioned the "horn" speakers on the tower only, not the swivel ones at all. I'm dubious as to what these are actually going to be like. Has anyone heard them yet?

[AuMDLST]

For What Its Worth

Based on past experience - you may want to cancel that speaker option and go with a proven setup.
For what CC charged in the past - you could have wetsounds amplified correctly.

[Careless]

**** it! I thought that is what someone would say...

The only thing is this boat will be somewhat of a demo boat for the local nautique dealer, that being the case he wants genuine parts fitted to it to show customers. That and the local wetsounds agent is a Tige dealer...

I was kinda hoping we could amp them up and fit a hidden removable a/m sub and box that would fit where the esky goes.

[EarmarkMarine]

Careless,
Wait and see. Maybe the option will not be ready yet when your boat delivers as we've heard that there are some issues with their HLCD offering.

[Careless]

Hope this isn't considered a hijack but I believe it still relates to the original post...

I have contacted wetsounds and they have been very help full, and are of the opinion that the wetsounds 6x9's will fit in these new factory cans, if this is the case it may work for us as the boat will look like the one in catalogue but only we will know that the speakers are upgraded. That is of course if the boat arrives with the factory ones at all.

Earmark, with regards to the 2010 onwards position for the sub in the 210 (behind driver) do you know if this is an enclosure or free air and if so have you tried boxing it at all?

[EarmarkMarine]

Careless,
Factory has mis-applied this 10-inch subwoofer in 'free air'. For an enclosure to be effective it has to be around .65 cu.ft. gross internal displacement and it has to be airtight. Front loading nor access nor available space is going to allow you to do this. If you entirely remove the coaming you could probably build a combination birch/fiberglass mat enclosure. That would be a massive undertaking so I don't consider it a good option. Once you remove the woofer and look inside you will see what I mean. You could front load a round enclosure for an 8-inch woofer but this would be to supplement a larger woofer located elsewhere and only be of benefit to the driver.

David
Earmark Marine

[Careless]

David,

I get what your saying, had a quick look at a 2010 210 last night,

At this stage what i'm thinking is to just leave the factory sub where it is and forget about it until we sell the boat, we will probably be changing boats over fairly regularly.

The 2 amps that come with the boat are a 4 channel and a 2 channel. I believe from factory 2 channels of the 4 channel amp run the sub, I was thinking I would disconnect this and give 4 of the boat speakers a channel each or could I run all the 6 boat speakers off this amp if so what would be the best way to wire them in? Then I was going to build a sub box to hopefully fit 2 x 12's and mount a sufficient amp for them to the enclosure and place it behind the observer seat. The idea for this will be that we can easily remove it and put it all back to factory and install it in the next boat.

Will wait to see what the factory tower speakers are like before making a decision on them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

[EarmarkMarine]

Careless,
Without some acoustic planning you can easily create more problems than you solve. For example, with two 12s in the port locker the three pair of coaxials along the port coaming are going to launch with every substantial bass note. This will result in serious distortion. For a variety of reasons you have to vent the locker with the combined surface area of the two 12-inch woofers which is highly unlikely that you can accomplish this even if you do turn the boat into swiss cheese. Without adequate venting all you've accomlished is a major boat shaker rather than a bass maker. Tons of rumble and vibration but very little of what could be considered as recognizable or musical bass. You can't run around with the observer seat open all the time.
Check out our gallery to see how we vented the area with four vents for a 13-inch sub. Btw, a single 12 or 13-inch bandpass enclosure is absolutely crushing in that boat, will consume less space and will compete with two bass-reflex 12s. Also, one of the challenges is not what will fit in the locker but what can be inserted through the seat opening.

David
Earmark Marine

[Careless]

Being someone that just likes loud clean music, without a lot of knowledge on how to get it. I am doing my best to get a grasp of all your advice. So without venting the port locker the bass getting pushed around back there will make the 3 mid drivers down that side become unwilling subs? and without venting you wont hear the musicality of the subs anyway. We have optioned the esky hatch so I guess we could do a temporary vent through that.

By Bandpass I believe your referring to a sub that is boxed at the front and back, with a port in the front box. I haven't ever attempted to build one of these and have a fear of failure hehe.

Bear in mind that JL gear is a little difficult to get over here and even with the Aussie Dollar being worth on par with the green back atm, JL stuff is still quite expensive. In the current boat (old Malibu Sunscape) I have two alpine type R's and for the price of them i'm pretty impressed with their output. They are in slot ported boxes with one on the drivers side foot well and one in the port side locker, powered by a 1500wrms amp. All that gear is being sold with the old boat.

If you wouldn't mind giving some advice on what you would do in my circumstance I would really appreciate it.

[EarmarkMarine]

No problem. I don't mind going into a more detailed explanation. The adjoining coaming/gunnel cavities are acoustically connected to the port storage locker so without adequate venting two things will happen with certainty. 1)The coaxials along that side will become sympathetic radiators to the woofers' excursion thereby modulating the coaxials out of phase with the woofers and distorting the midbass and midrange that the coaxials are expected to cleanly reproduce. These two separate speaker types are supposed to be playing different bandwidths with electrical and acoustical isolation. Without venting the bass wavefront and pressure within the locker will seek the most compliant exit which happens to be the coaxials in this case. 2)Without substantial venting the strong fiberglass console mold and thick seat cushions will choke much of the bass radiation. The amplifier and woofer(s) will work inordinately hard to ultimately under-produce which can lead to product reliability issues (after all you're not looking to dual subs just to play it softly). You will get some low bass pass-through and vibration just like you would hear a sub at selective frequencies from another room. Alot of indiscriminate rumble with little tonal construction, transients, harmonics and pitch that make up the musical components of bass. Most of the articulate characteristics will be consumed within the locker and adjoining cavities and blocked by the console structure.

In addition to venting, a bandpass enclosure would uniquely fit this particular application because you can get an average increase of 6dB output over a solid octave and one half (35 hz to 100hz at minus 3db down points) which is equivalent to four times the power level. That is great leverage to help overcome the challenges of a mostly enclosed locker.
And, the dimensions are fairly compact to fit through the seat opening. That's my case.

David
Earmark Marine

[Careless]

Thanks David

Really appreciate all your help

Paul

[Careless]

Ok so I've heard the factory set up with the new HLCD, They are pretty good for what they are, especially if you consider they are only 6.5" drivers not 8". If I can devise a way of getting another pair up there I would be happy with their performance.

All I need to do now is get more bass in the boat. David do you have any bandpass enclosure designs you could pass on to me? that would fit in the observer side locker? For a single 12'' woofer. I was thinking one of the new series type R's.