Skylon Deafcon V

**clubmyke** · 04-20-2005, 01:47 AM

they are a horn tower speaker based on the nvs design (wakeside commissioned image dynamics to come up the driver complement)

i have heard both designs and each one has pros and cons...

the defcon v is really, really, really inefficent.. you will need some big high quality amps to push these (250rms to 500 rms of zapco power..not to mention the brutal 2 ohm load)..

by the time all is said and done you will need another alternator or a major altenator upgrade..

btw, horn speakers have "beaming" issues (common to both)..this is evident when you behind the boat and cut in either direction..

imo, tower speakers are still very much a work in progress..there has'nt been enough r&d in the drivers, crossovers, or enclosures ( tubes make for great subs in the right enviornment but are not a efficent design for tower speakers)..

i am going to make a strong statement...though horns are very efficent.... i think there are better sounding drivers, better enclosure designs,easier to drive, and bass( i am really surprised no one came up with any of these yet...)

**clubmyke** · 04-20-2005, 02:20 AM

btw,

to answer your question....

yes you will be able to hear music behind your boat under the right "system" circumstances.... you should also get behind a boat that has them and listen...

**m3the01** · 04-20-2005, 08:12 AM

Impossible to hear some up in alberta.

As for the alternator statement, i highly doubt this.

I will be running a kicker sx600.2 which in all reality is not that big of a amp for a alternator even running at 2 ohms.

I was running 1500watts in a 1998 honda civic without any alternator problems for 4 years. So im sure my pcm can cover this, 2ohm yeah its a little harder for the alternator to sustain that load but remember its not always going to be running at full power.

thanks for the thoughts though.

Steven

**clubmyke** · 04-20-2005, 10:26 AM

uhmm...there is a big difference between watts and current..the kicker is not a bad amp ( i am a big fan of the older zr series) but they dont make them like they use to.... the older kicker zr1000 could ruin a regular altenator pretty quickly (70 amp draw !!! i have done it !) in short - there is a big diffence between car and boat systems...

tower speakes are pretty much nothing more than pa speakers on your tower...
a car system there is a lot of sound reinforcement considering the much smaller confined listening listening area

a boat system has no sound reinforcment, hence the need for high quality amps that can run at very high levels (near all out). not to mention the tube for a tower enclosure is the most inefficent design there is...
tubes work great subs because there are additonal planes for 12 db reinforcement.... hang a tube in the air with no boundry reinforcement and you will find out pretty quick a high quality amp like a zapco 750 or a 1000 runs out of steam.....
2 are needed in a monobloc configuration......but because the speakers are a 2 ohm load you are sol..there are very few amps that run bridged into a 2 ohm load...

you can check with some other boat owners who have gone with big amp systems with high quality amps only to burn out the alternator or battery or both... ask grant (whitechocolate on this site) or big ed, blue malibu on wakeworld (dual altenators)

once you do the install and the math, you might be surprised how much amperage drainage you will be at....

40-50 amps x 2 for the tower / interior
50 amps for the sub

so the 100 amp alternator isnt enough...check the threads here...this has been covered pretty well..

call up mike @ wakeside and ask him about what type of amps are needed to run the reference v's.... i think you will be very surprised at what is involved....

btw, i have been in contact with nvs and skylon about a new tower speaker design to cover some of these issues...

-increased efficency
-higher sound quality
-bass at the rider
-less sound in the boat and more at the rider
-eliminate the beaminess of the horn..
-eliminate the distortion of the horn (horns have a high amount of distortion....anywhere from 15% to 25% !!!!)
-less weight

the current designs are good, but not great...each designer came from a different approach- skylon from a car audio and nvs from a pa sound reinforcement

i think once the above issues are addressed for a "boat specific engineered system" then we will have something... until then, i am not going to put down my cash or change my current system (eclipse 8053, 3 zapco 350's,1 jl 500/1, image dynamic chamelon seperate and idq subs).

more than likely you will see a couple of the above design implementations over the next couple generations..

hope that helps....

**clubmyke** · 04-20-2005, 10:45 AM

btw, further thought....

a 2 ohm load is not a problem for a sub amp since most of them are class d or designed to run mono down to 1 ohm..(class d amps also have high amount of distortion. but because it is in the lower frequncy range, it is not heard)

but take a stereo amp that runs from 125hz to 20k hz and run it near all out at 2 ohms with trying to keep the distortion down.... it is really, really, hard... "most" stereo amps will not run a 2 ohm mono load..

**MinnesotaNautique** · 04-20-2005, 11:44 AM

m3the01...
I ordered the IV's from wakeside nearly 3 weeks ago...they told me they are back-ordered until some time in May. Let me know when your's arrive will ya? I'm becoming so impatient!

Clubmyke...do you think it will be neccessary to upgrade the alternator, or add an additional battery for the IV's? I currently just have the stock system in place. Also I still need to purchase an amp, and am quite clueless...any suggestions on what brand, model, or where to buy? (I will be using the amp to power the tower speakers only.) Thanks in advance for your help...

**Alan-S** · 04-20-2005, 12:25 PM

OK, I just want to put in my .02 because maybe there is something i am missing. I have a 5 chanel amp running my in-boat speakers and one 10w6v2 in a sealed box under the driver's console. I then have a 200x2 with a $1 switch thrown in to the rem. wire and installed next to my ballast gauges. I flip my switch on and off every time a rider gets up and falls because the tower speakers are loud as ****. When we are riding we can hear the music crystal clear at 70-80'. The tower speakers are the Air Boom Cans with the nautique logo, I gutted them and installed some super efficient coax's, then sealed it all up airtight with marine grade sealant. Bass bumps, No distortion, no problems, and everyone who as ridden behind my boat compliments the audio just as much as the SAN wake. going on 3rd season with this setup.

**Alan-S** · 04-20-2005, 12:26 PM

Here is a pic of the speakers, sorry need some polish

**dba4life** · 04-20-2005, 02:35 PM

WHere did you get those speaker cans? Very nice.

**Alan-S** · 04-20-2005, 02:58 PM

http://airboom.com/speakers.html

**Alan-S** · 04-20-2005, 03:01 PM

They are great speaker cans, no drilling or anything, the front just screws off and you can change out the speakers. That is how I picked the speakers I did, just went to my local audio place, hooked up my amp in their garage, and tried out speakers till I found the loudest ones.

**clubmyke** · 04-20-2005, 08:20 PM

sorry for the lack of information on my part..a lot will depend on the system design...

i am assuming "most" owners who are going to run the iv & v are running high quality multi-amp systems... 1 -2 amps big amps for the towers and internal speakers and another big amp for the sub( i am referring to very good amps, jl,zapco, etc..) depending on your setup it is pretty easy to run 4-6 amps which can hurt your altenator and or battery

so wether you will need to upgrade your alternator is dependant on how many amps you are running and the amperage pulled..

if you are looking for amp or amps to run the skylons....if money is no object then a zapco 750 or 1000..if on a budget, then a used kicker zr 600/1000( or a couple zr 360's as mono blocks). also mmats sq series used in a monobloc configuration would work..

**MinnesotaNautique** · 04-20-2005, 09:47 PM

Clubmyke,
You certainly know your info...thanks for the quick response.

**MinnesotaNautique** · 04-20-2005, 10:19 PM

Clubmyke,
Any input on Orion or Phoenix Gold amps? Again I know very little about audio products...just trying to make the right purchase for the deafcon's. I'm not looking to blow anyone out of the water, we seem to cause enough comotion as it is...Thanks.

Skylon Deafcon V

Skylon Deafcon V

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