Need advice from you stereo gurus on a ground up system build

[Txpilot83]

I'm planning my stereo build for my SN 176 and need some advice. The boat has never had a stereo of any kind so it's going to be a from the ground up project. I'm planning on doing a setup with 4 in boats, a sub in the front firing into the nose, tower speakers, and adding another battery in the nose behind the sub box. Where I'm really needing advice is choosing exactly what equipment to buy. My primary goal is to be able to hear the music while wake boarding but I also wake surf and hangout at the party cove quite a bit. I don't have a bimini top yet but I'm planning on getting one so tower speaker clearance might be an issue unless I get one that goes over the tower. Tell me what you guys think would be the best of the following setups (my budget is 3-4k):


1. Kicker 6 pack (KM6500.2 and KM6500) for the tower with a JL MHD750/1, 4 JL650s and a wetsounds XS-10FA in a box made out of starboard powered by an Alpine PDX-5M. (I have a set of empty kicker dual kmted enclosures already)


2. One pair of pro 80s powered by an Alpine PDX4.100 and the same as option 1 for the in boat setup.


3. One pair of pro 80s and 4 wetsounds XS-65s all powered by a wetsounds HT-6 and the powered wetsounds HT-AS10 sub.


For the deck I'm planning on getting one of those Sony marine media players and a wetsounds ws-420.


I'm hoping the amps are efficient enough to not make an alternator upgrade necessary. What advantages/disadvantage do y'all see in those options? I'm defiantly open to other suggestions as well. Thanks.

[MLA]

1) Kicker KM6500.2 6-Pack is a great setup. it will project for wake-board range, yet still sound warm near field. 750W total is decent power. In stead of the 10Fa in an enclosure, I would suggest the SS-10B. The 10Fa is best used in an infinite-baffle setup, where as the SS-10 will perform well in an enclosure. off the top of my head, im not sure what the PDX-5M 4 ohm mono output is. or skip the 5 chnl and go with a 4.100 for the in-boats and the HT-AS10 self powered sub. The PDX-5M is perfect for 2 pair of the JL 650.

2) 200 x 2 from the PDX 4.100 is respectable power for a pair of Pro-80. These will most definitely reach your wake boarder, but are a little harsh near field.

3) This would give you 300W to each Pro-80 and 75W to each of your 4 in-boats.

If you know what all these speakers and subs sound like, then make a decision based on that. I have heard all the gear mentioned here, except the SS10B/HT--AS10. All you amp choice are high quality amps and efficient. Im not sure I was a ton of help, but you are on a good path with the options above. The 10Fa in a box is the only real thing i would rethink.

[ski4evr]

I've got the pdx100.4 driving two pro 80's and the pdx-5m driving 4 jl 650's and two jl 10" subs. Have not one complaint, except for my folks in their pontoon. Exceptionally loud and clear. I'm sure there is better equipment available, but I am really happy with mine. I do plan on adding the ws-420 this winter.

[EarmarkMarine]

Without surveying the boat, I'm going to limit my suggestions.
Front to rear acoustic isolation is critical for the coaxials. This raises a concern until viewing the boat and knowing the specific mounting locations, especially in consideration of a boat that has not had a stereo previously.
The brands and individual equipment looks good but there are a number of applicational issues I have problems with.
I would avoid a 'FA' (infinite baffle) woofer in an enclosure unless it was well in excess of 2 cu.ft. net (which is enough to facilitate a 13.5" or 15" driver). For an enclosed sub there are many better alternatives within the Wetsounds or other lines.
Not sure how you would retro the new round horn into the center of the curved KMT enclosures that have an odd shaped horn mouth.
From there, the final speaker/woofer selection should dictate the amplifier selection.

David

[SuperSquirt]

TXPILOT, i had this same exact boat for about 10 years, so I know what you are working with. You should definitely replace your head unit and 4 in-boat speakers, there are a lot of good brands out there. I had a 12" Kicker Solobaric in a sealed box facing toward the nose and it absolutely thumped that little boat out! I used a 600 watt amp and another amp for my pylon speakers, with both amps in the bow behind foot plate.

The tower looks great. I always wanted to do that with my 176

[Txpilot83]

Thanks for all the info. For some reason when I was looking around I never checked out wetsounds SS-10B. That's most likely the sub I will go with as long as it will work with the Alpine PDX-5M (will its dual 2-ohm voice coils work with the 4 ohm output of the PDX-5?).

Everything I've read about the Kicker 6 pack has been positive and I like the fact it hangs lower than the Pro 80s giving more head room in a boats that already small. Has anyone compared the the 6 pack head to head against the pro 80s? With 750 watts vs 400 I would think the 6 pack would be farther reaching and clearer at wake boarding distances but I have never heard either. Like MLA mentioned it seems the 6 pack would be more listener friendly at different distances but again I've never heard it.

Dave - the enclosures I have are the dual Kicker ones made specifically for the 6500.2 so as far as enclosures go I would only need to get the single ones (KMTES) for the 6 pack. Do you guys do any price matching or discounts? I would much rather keep my business locally but its hard to beat the prices of the online stores. When I do pull the trigger I'm planning on buying whatever wetsounds stuff I get from you guys and probably have y'all do the dual battery instal.

SuperSquirt - Do you have any pictures of the set up you had in your 176? I was originally panning on putting the amps where you did but the area behind the foot plate is so small and hard to get to I figured I'd just build a simple amp board and mount it against the left side of the hull at the opening of the bow cavity. The amps I'm looking at are really small though and maybe they could fit where you put yours. Thanks for the compliments on the tower. I haven't ridden behind it yet with the tower but with a few fat sacks the 176 throws a nice wake and I actually had a 250 pound friend surf behind it. I was nervous the boat would look goofy with a tower because its so small but New Dimensions did awesome work and I think it looks great.

Thanks again for all info.

[Txpilot83]

I just looked at the specs on Alpine PDX-5M a little closer and the mono channel can be run in 2ohm or 4ohm so either way I'm guessing it will work with wetsounds ss-10b.

[MLA]

The PDX-5m will deliver 300 x 1 @ both 2 and 4 ohm, so it will be fine for the SS-10B.

I have had the opportunity to do side by side comparison of the Kicker 6-Pack and Wet Sounds Pro-80 both in a shop and out on the open water. Ive powered the Kicker setup any where from 450W rms total up to 1000W RMS total and the Pro-80 from 350W rms total to 800W rms total. Both offer a pair of strong HLCD horns, so projecting to wake range will not be a problem. The Kicker cross-over is not as harsh, or "bright" as some like to call it. Close in for surfing or the party-cove scene, the edge goes to the Kicker KM6500.2. The 4 6.5" mids offer more surface area then a pair of 8" pro-axial HLCD's, so the mid-bass output from the 6-Pack will be good. A slight edge will almost always go to the larger woofer, but I would probably cross these two setups over pretty close to each other, so the lower notes that the larger driver will like to reproduce will not be as much of an advantage. Neither is a bad choice, so if you get a chance to listen to them, that would be a plus. I think David may have a Kicker 6-Pack on hand to demo. Dont know if he still has any 80's up. I swapped mine out last year for Rev-10's.

[EarmarkMarine]

Txpilot83,
Out of respect for the forum rules I'll keep my public comments limited to product, technical, and application. Issues of pricing and discounts would have to be private discussions. Check in with Eric in Lewsiville.
Thanks.

David
Earmark Marine

[Txpilot83]

I just got the Kicker 6 pack speakers, cans, and JL MHD750/1 in and I'm having a **** of a time figuring out how all 6 speakers/cans will fit on my tower. (the 176 has an 88" beam so the ND tower is narrower than most) I also fold my tower down every time I go out and I'm worried the weight of this setup will make this a major pain. Guess I should have planned this out better. I got a good deal on everything so if decide to go a different route I think I can sell the stuff on ebay without taking a huge hit.

If I do go another direction I'm leaning towards one pair of wetsounds REV8s. How would these compare to the 6-pack for those that have heard both? Would the JL 750/1 be too much amp for just one pair? Thanks for the info.

[TX-Foilhead]

Could you go with 2 down and 1 up on each side? 750/1 would be a little overkill on REV 8's but with some restraint on the volume knob you could probably get by. Good for a set of REV 10's if they aren't in your way too much.

[MLA]

I just got the Kicker 6 pack speakers, cans, and JL MHD750/1 in and I'm having a **** of a time figuring out how all 6 speakers/cans will fit on my tower. (the 176 has an 88" beam so the ND tower is narrower than most) I also fold my tower down every time I go out and I'm worried the weight of this setup will make this a major pain. Guess I should have planned this out better. I got a good deal on everything so if decide to go a different route I think I can sell the stuff on ebay without taking a huge hit.

If I do go another direction I'm leaning towards one pair of wetsounds REV8s. How would these compare to the 6-pack for those that have heard both? Would the JL 750/1 be too much amp for just one pair? Thanks for the info.

Tx,

With the pods i have my Kicker KM6500.2's in, measure about 7.5" p/pod, so 45" total width. With a couple of lateral bars in the way, i could see this being a tough fit to have them all mounted across the aft bar on the down side. What about mounting a pair of pods on the aft upright, just before it turns and becomes the top cross bar. Or go with just the 4 pods. 750W is very strong, but with good tuning on some discipline on the volume knob, I do not see a problem.

In regards to weight: The Kickers are super light due to the neo-magnet. Depending on the pods you have, they may run about 6 Lbs p/pod. A pair of Rev-8 weight about 28 Lbs and the Rev-10 about 44 lbs

The Kicker KM6500.2 and the Rev-8 have similar power handling, so this makes them a fair comparison in that aspect. Both option shave 2 horns. The Rev-8 is an 8" pro-axial driver, so the horn is mounted through the center of the driver. The Kicker setup is a component setup, so the horn is separate and the 6.5" mid-bass has a continuous cone cone. So, these two setups are a valid comparison. Both will reach the wake-boarder, both have warmer near-field sound then previous generations of HLCD, but each has its own unique sound signature. At the end of the day, an audition by you would be the determining factor.

[Txpilot83]

Thanks or the input. If the REV8s and the Kicker 6 pack weigh and perform about the same I'll just stick with what I got. Head room is super tight and I'm guessing the 6 pack will give more head room than the REV8s. I would really like to keep all 6 speakers on the aft lateral bar if possible. My tower has 1-7/8" tubing and if I use the 2" clamp adapter with some all weather foam tape to fill the gap I can mount a pod where the lateral bar starts to bend down. I got it fairly tight and the pod wasn't moving around at all. Any problems with the foam tape method? It's marine grade foam tape but I'm afraid it will corrode and the pods will start moving around. Also, my tower came prewired with that cheesy generic wire in the picture. Will that be fine or should I upgrade?

[MLA]

Over time, the tape may shrink. Are you using the additional inserts that come with the KMTAP? That wire will be fine. I would tin the striped end with some solder, then apply a coating of dielectric grease before inserting in the binding post.

[Txpilot83]

I got two KMTAPs for all 4 pods (two single, two dual) but the 1-7/8" inserts don't fit around the tower pipe and they actually don't fit well into the pod brackets either. The next size bigger are the 2" adapters. The 2" adapters seem to fit way better but they leave just a tiny gap between them and the tower pipe. Instead of using the foam tape to close the gaps I could cut a thin silicone or rubber mat into strips and place them between the pipe and 2" adapters. Think that would be better?