Amp Suggestions

[axeman]

All,

Boat is 2012 SAN 230. My setup will consist of:

1. Stock in-boat speakers
2. 4 REV 10 tower speakers
3. 12" Kicker CVX (750 watts RMS) [tentative]

Current amps:
1. Wetsounds Syn 6
2. Wetsounds Syn 4

Is this going to be enough to power all of this or am I going to need to replace some amps or get another (3rd) amp? I'd prefer to stick to Wetsounds amps just to keep that part of the system consistent. Thanks for the help!

[scottb7]

if it was me i would get an amp for the sub, but then again, i would get something decent not necessarily wetsounds. i have a jl audio 600w 6channel for in boat, alpine 4 channel for tower speakers, and alpine 1 channel for just sub. sounds pretty good.

[EarmarkMarine]

If the Kicker is 4-ohms then the Syn6 can run the in-boats and sub. But no 2-ohm SVC sub. A DVC 2-ohm sub is fine.
You want symmetrical power to each of four Rev10s.
A single Syn4 can run four Rev10s, either bridged with seriesed speakers or discrete four channels with a dedicated channel per speaker. At 125 watts to each Rev10 this would be terribly under-powered.
Add a second Syn4 and run both to the tower speakers. Bridge the eight channels into four with 400 watts to each of four Rev10s.

David
Earmark Marine

[axeman]

Instead of buying another Syn 4 to run the 4 REV10s would I be better off buying an SD4?

[EarmarkMarine]

I would say no. The SD4 is more efficient with more power. But bridged into one pair of REV10s is excessive and dangerous not to mention out of balance with the other Syn4 in both power and asthetics. Using only the SD4 to drive four REV10s, whether 4-channel discrete or in a bridged/seriesed configuration, is too little power. Two Syn4s is more powerful than a single SD2. Two bridged Syn4s ideally hit the mark if you want the REV10s at full potential.

David

[axeman]

So I guess my options would then be the following for the 4 REV10s:

- 2 Wetsounds SYN 4 amps (I already have one so I would only need to buy one more)
- 2 Wetsounds SD2 amps (same power rating Stereo @ 4 ohms [400x2] as the SYN 4 bridged but more efficient?)
- 2 JL Audio MHD 750/1 amps (cheapest solution?)

Which of these setups are going to give me the following:

- Best bang for my buck
- Most efficient setup (current draw, performance when battery starts getting run down, etc.)

I appreciate all the help!

[EarmarkMarine]

First, the easy answer. Your best bang for the buck is buy one more Syn4 since you already own one.
The SD2 and HD750/1 will be the similar Class D efficiency and a little more efficient than the Class H Syn4.
Two SD2s in this configuration is just too much to spend to get 400 watts to each of four speakers....although a single SD2 is a very cost-effective route to get 300 watts to each of four speakers.
Class D is the most efficient and running a 4-ohm stereo load is more efficent than running a 2-ohm stereo load or a 4-ohm bridged load. But all these scenarios are so much more efficient than Class AB that I don't want to split hairs.
Twin HD750/1s is all that the Rev10s can handle. Consider that the HD750/1 is strictly regulated and will maintain full rated power all the way down to an 11 volt supply. This quality is unique to the HD750/1.
At these power levels most people are under the misconception that they can hear a 100 watt difference but you cannot. Power related to acoustic output is a matter of ratio. You will not detect a difference between 700 and 800 watts. But a difference between 10 and 110 watts is huge! In terms of hearing an audible difference in amplitude, think of the smallest power increment as being a one/third increase. At some point, even a 1/3rd increase is not enough, because as you are driving the speaker into dynamic compression you tend to hit the wall. I really feel that beyond 400 watts per each Rev10 we are talking diminishing returns.

David

[axeman]

At what voltage do the SYN 4 and SD 2 start dropping their power? I'm not trying to be the loudest guy on the lake. I just want a decent sounding system that doesn't leave me stranded after a full day out on the water. That's why I was asking about power efficiency.

[EarmarkMarine]

axe,
You are never going to be stranded because you will always have your cranking battery in reserve?

A Class AB amplifier is typically 50% efficient. The efficiency drops at a lower impedance load. The efficiency also drops at lower power levels. At very low power a Class AB amplifier might only be 20% efficient but then you aren't pulling as much current at a very low power.
Class H efficiency is a 40 percent increase over Class AB. Class D is a 60 percent increase over Class AB. Either H or D is a major improvement over AB.
There is no voltage threshold at which an unregulated amplifier abruptly loses power. It's a gradual increase or decline. Per CEA2006 standards, RMS power ratings are taken with a 14.4 volt supply at 1% distortion with a 1kHz signal. Those are actually very easy conditions and not terribly realistic as compared to the actual usage. You will not get 14.4 volts supply in a boat when running. You will get no more than 12.7 volts with a flooded battery at rest. That voltage will momentarily drop when under load. None of this is static. You will not have as much power at 100 Hz as you will at 1 kHz. The power begins a reduction at any lower voltage just like you will get more power at a higher voltage. Typically you will lose 25% of the 14.4 volt rated power with a 12.5 volt supply. The 14.4 volt rating is no more than one equalizing standard for all amplifier manufacturers to follow if they so choose. It is not a representation of the actual power in real world use.
I'm sure the above is too much information. So let me summarize and explain what is potentially more important.
With either of the higher efficiency Class H or D toplogies you have taken a major step in managing your power reserves. I would be comfortable with either.
While being concerned with amplifier efficiency, you can make just as much of an efficiency difference in smart system design, installation execution and system tuning.
Your battery reserves should be at a level that you do not repetitively run them down below 12.0 volts.
With usage as you have described, you cannot depend solely on the boat's alternator for restoration. In order to get the maximum weekend to weekend battery performance and extend the battery lifespan, you need a SMART 3-stage dual-bank AC shore charger.

David

[axeman]

Ok. Will I need any other amps or can the SYN 6 run my in-boats and the Kicker CVX 12? Any other comparable subs I should consider?

[MLA]

The Syn-6 can power 2 pair of in-boats and a 2 ohm dual voice coil sub wired in series. The Sub would receive 600W.

[EarmarkMarine]

Ok. Will I need any other amps or can the SYN 6 run my in-boats and the Kicker CVX 12? Any other comparable subs I should consider?

I personally like the JL Audio 12W3 sub. Very deep structure borrowing a lot of the W7 reference technology. Tremendous pitch accuracy. Come by and listen to a tiny 8W3 in a bass-reflex enclosure. It's a total shocker.

David
Earmark Marine

[axeman]

Two SD2s in this configuration is just too much to spend to get 400 watts to each of four speakers....although a single SD2 is a very cost-effective route to get 300 watts to each of four speakers.

David

Are you saying I can run all four REV 10s off of one SD2? Wouldn't this be the most efficient and cost effective if I could swap out amps?

[EarmarkMarine]

axeman,
Staying with Wetsounds we have established there are two good choices to drive four Rev10s.
Dual bridged Syn4s. Class H.
Single SD2. Class D.
Bridged @ 4-ohms or stereo @ 2-ohms is the identical load and a slight reduction in efficiency as compared to stereo @ 4-ohms.
The Class D SD2 holds an efficiency advantage. It's certainly not a gigantic difference.
The dual bridged Syn4s have a power advantage but it is arguable as to whether you will detect that difference under most conditions.
Least expensive is to add a second Syn4.
In the name of simplicity, an SD2 replacement makes a lot of sense. It certainly simplifies the installation.

David

[axeman]

David,

i appreciate your help on this. I'm new to audio installs and I'm just trying to grasp the technical aspect of it. I truly appreciate you taking the time to explain and provide options. Thanks again!