2003 206 full stereo replacement - Have I got it right?

[Puzzlescort]

Just a bit of a sanity check after reading post after post of stereo recomendations

I am going to replace all speakers and head unit in the boat as it still had the original clarion setup

I have drawn a bit of a schematic to help me understand the whole process of determing Amp size and requiring an equalizer

Head unit CMD8 & MW1 remote
Wetsounds WS 420 SQ
1 x 6 channel Amp
1 x 4 Channel Amp

depending on budget boat speakers will be Polk MM6501 UM or wetsounds XS-65

tower speakers I was thinking of mixing a pair HCLD (Krypt) with a 6.5 polk or with wetsounds tower speakers you don't need HCLD??

Only a family boat, skiing, wakeboarding, surfing, kneeboarding etc, not needing to blast everyone out of the water, just want to spend the money once wisely

If I am on the right track with capacities and spec's I will then see how far I can stretch remembering the dollars not that great for us down here at the moment

thanks guys
Scott

[Paxdad]

Are you dead set on having a head unit?? With the 420 you do not need a head unit and can use a MP3 (iphone, etc) as the music source through the Aux input. By eliminating the head unit you will save $$ and other potential shortfalls (noise) with the exception of not having an AM/FM radio. I don't have good am/ fm reception and most other folks I know do not either. I recommend the Arc Audio 805xdi (5 channel) amp to run the in boat speakers and sub and the Arc Audio 600.2 to run a pair of HCLD tower speakers. I am currently running these amps with 6 Rockford Fosgate in boat speakers, 2 WS Pro 485 tower speakers, and a WS10 sub. I am going to replace the WS sub with a JL sub and custom enclosure soon. The only thing I see with you schematic is that I would have more power to the tower speaker and less to the in boat and that you don't have a sub anywhere.

[jonsquatch]

I am thinking exactly the same thing, ditch the head unit entirely and just use the 420 and mount it up out of the way and get ahold of the new wetsounds bluetooth audio controler, I just got mine last week, and it is sweet. That way you can use an Ipod or phone or other bluetooth mp3 player and be able to control play, pause, track and volume from one knob. I don't ever play CD's or AM/FM and with the 420 and the eq's in the amps you can tune the system completely and have full volume control.

I would add a sub to your schematic and if your not interested in running audio for a cove I wouldn't bother with any tower speakers at all unless you have HLCD's in which case they are for the rider when you are wakeboarding, and with the 420 you can just turn the volume down completely when nobody is riding or they don't want to hear the music. I would probably add a set of HLCD's though as with the 420 you can use the mic to talk to your rider while they are riding. That comes in handy to say things like your dropping your shoulder, or keep your arms in, or hold on theres a jetflea 5 feet behind you.

You could run the 6 channel as per your spec and then get a 5 channel amp that has enough power to run the tower and sub. That way you could bridge the 4 channels together to give you enough power to drive the HLCD's and not overpower the sub. Otherwise if you go with a 4 channel that is powerful enough for the the HLCD's you will have too much power for most marine subs if you bridge the other 2 channels together. Your other option is to get a 7 channel amp to power the sub and mains and then find a 2 or 4 channel amp for the 2 HLCD's on the tower. A 4 channel amp that you can bridge will generally be less expensive to get to the power rating you want than finding a beefy 2 channel.

The reason you want a sub is the in boats just can't handle full volume at full range for long and if you run them with a high pass you will notice missing low end. From personal preference I would stay away from the Polks, I have the MM651UM which would be a lot easier to deal with than the separate MM6501UM and its the midranges that keep dying. If there were other options I would try that first, as I hear a lot about failures with the Polks, granted as OEM for a couple of brands there are a lot of them out there but I wouldn't give them a premium over something else.

I haven't heard the Wetsounds XS-65, but I have heard both the Wetsounds XS-650 and the Roswell RMA 6510 and they both sound awesome and have really good build quality, the Roswell has hefty metal grille. Those are both about the same price range as the MM6501UM, the XS-65 is a good bit cheaper, but I haven't ever heard anything bad about Wetsounds I would probably give that a try if money was tight.

[Puzzlescort]

Thanks for your help guys...

Luckily where we ski we do have good radio reception so in the grand schem I might still go with a head unit but clearly hear what your saying & that might be further down the track

I like the suggestion of a 7 channel amp to power the mains & sub, I always thought the sub could be added at a later date with a seperate amp and installing the 420 was the basis for most installs and would allow this to happen easily but will look for a 7 channel now
Funnily enough last night I spent a bit of time looking at Ridebutters setup & the Roswell site and liked the look of the RMA 6510 speakers

I will research the arc amps and subs

thanks guys

[MLA]

Puzzle,

A 6-chnl amp to drive 6 in-boats is a great idea and there are also plenty of 4 chnl amps out there that will also get the job done. A 6 or 5 chnl can also drive 6 in-boats and a mild 10 or 12 inch sub. There are a couple of hi-end 6 chnl amps that will deliver some serious subwoofer power if your budget and sub goals dictate. Adding a sub, even a mild sub, will bring balance to any system. So I would at least entertain a small sub.

Before deciding on an amp for the tower setup, you need to determine what speakers you will be going with. What are your tower speaker goals? Im not a fan of mixing HLDC and coaxial. With the right HLCD, you can have that near-field sound quality that you would be expecting from the coaxial. Also, with the HLCDs powered with the right power, they will consume the coaxials once the volume is turned up. At that point, your not getting a return on the investment, as well as the space to mount the amp and the battery Ah's to power it.

[NCH2oSki]

MLA has a good suggestion, I'm running 4 in boats and an Alpine type s 10" sub with a 5 channel amp, and am very pleased with the results. No towers and its surprisingly loud and clean.

The sub is in the driver side kick panel in a nice sealed properly coated box. I also have a line driver with eq functions, and I only use my ipod or phone.

[Paxdad]

Here are a couple photos of my installed amps: The 805xdi is on top and the 600.2 is on the bottom:

[jonsquatch]

I agree completely I have a pair of coax speakers and hlcd's on the the tower and from wakesurf distance on you can't tell much difference if the coax speakers are on or not when the boat is moving. What the coax speakers did though, is limit how loud I could turn the towers up since they were on the same amplifier and being in the near field are really loud starting just behind the drivers head so those in the back are getting blasted while underway. The hlcd's are absolutely unnecessary unless you want to get sound back to the rider and are another easy place to same a bit of money now, just running the rca's and power and ground and leaving room for the amp for later when you are ready for it in the next phase.

Also I am not sure if the 206 already had 6 speakers mounted, but if not you could go with 4 in boats in the main cabin which would leave the bow of the boat as a safe haven for those who might want to carry on a conversation and make it easier to find high quality inexpensive amplifiers. If you want to add a sub later to keep the cost down I would still plan ahead and get the amplifiers sorted out ahead of time as its a lot easier to mount 2 amps once than add a 3rd later and should save on expense.

If you break it down into phases you could do the following in whatever order that makes sense (other than the first one really):

1. 5/7 Channel amp, 4/6 6.5" Coaxes, WS420, Appropriate Wet Wire signal kit or equivalent, Install kit for 2 amps

2. Head unit

3. Subwoofer and Enclosure

4. HLCD's and Amplifier

After the first phase all the wiring would be done except running the speaker wiring to the sub (unless you decide on a location and run it when your doing the rest), wiring a remote control if you add a wired one for the head unit, and running the wires to the tower if and when you do that.

[Puzzlescort]

this is fantastic....really apprieciated guys

My 206 has 6 factory speakers so will replace all so they look the same, one thing I had never thought about that Jonsquatch raised is a wet wire signal kit, I definitely wont be mixing HCLD's with co axials now
It already has a small wired remote and have purchased the larger panel for the MW1 remote - I'm thinking with my kids only having the simple remote will be best & will keep the 420 semi h
hidden (dont know where yet)

Thanks for posting the pic of your set up Pax, I kept imaging a huge sub woofer box that would completely make the ski locker area completely useless - I already have a battery in there

Time to go shopping

[Puzzlescort]

Gone shopping.... just need a bit more advice on working out Amp power to speaker power - I have read probably too many articles now and have confused myself

I have decided after reading that the Kicker setup was a good value setup, looks good too as the minister of finance she has to approve as well lol

so set up will be ............

Tower - Kicker KM6500.2 Horn Component system 100watts RMS / 200 watts Peak

Boat - 6 off Kicker 11KM6200 which are 65 watts RMS / 130 watts Peak

I know you guys have recommended some amps - just not sure how you got there with the power requirements.....

So this is the part I am not sure about.....I have read to determine Amp wattage you multiply the speaker RMS x 1.6?

So I believe for the 6 inboats I am looking for a 6 channel 100watts x 6 @ 4ohms and for the tower a 4 channel 150watts x 4 @ 4ohms, then either one having a extra channel for a sub of approx 250 watts

If this sounds about right I think I'm done......

Thanks again & looking forward to your help

[MLA]

Puzzle,

Here is what I would recommend amp wise;

"Tower - Kicker KM6500.2 Horn Component system 100watts RMS / 200 watts Peak"

The KM6500.2 setup is actually 200W RMS/400W peak. I would go with the Kicker KXM400.4. In 2 channel mode, it will deliver 200W to each mid/horn pair.

"Boat - 6 off Kicker 11KM6200 which are 65 watts RMS / 130 watts Peak"

If you are just going to run 6 in-boats (no sub), I would go with a 2nd KXM400.4. This would deliver a solid 50W rms to each speaker.

Now, if you want to do a sub, then go with the KXM800.5. Same power the 6 in-boats and up to 400W rms to a sub like the Kicker CompS12 2 ohm. Or, go with the Kicker KM10 4 ohm marine sub and it will receive 200W rms.

[jonsquatch]

The KXM400.4 bridged is the obvious choice for a Kicker solution for a single pair of KM6500.2's (one mid and one horn wired in parallel for a 4 ohm load) on each of the 2 bridged 4 ohm channels. If you plan on adding the extra KM6500 mid to make it a 6-pack which seems to be pretty common in order to get the output needed, then you either need 2 KXM400.4's bridged or you could use the KXM400.2 2 channel amp with the 3 speakers wired in parallel on each side which gives you 2 ohm load (the extra KM6500 mid is 4 ohms).

For the 6 in boats I would be hesitant to spend as much as they want for the KXM800.5 and be a little low on power and then have to run 2 pairs in parallel. There isn't really a risk of under powering the speakers but there is a risk in overdriving the amp. I didn't see a true ohm rating for the 11KM6200 but most of the coaxial speakers like this are 3.something not a true 4 ohm's so there is a risk if you really drive it hard into clipping and at less than 2ohms you risk over driving the amp and the power output could exceed the RMS rating of the speaker and eventually the tweeter or the amp that might suffer. Might not be a problem if they are a true 4ohm and its not driven too hard but purists like Kickers own Phil White don't generally recommend running full range coaxes in parallel on an amp rated at two ohms. If I had the amps and the speakers already I would probably do it and make sure not to over do it on the gain. If I killed the amp then I really needed a new setup anyway, if I start killing speakers then it was my fault for being cheap.

But, if I am on a budget and still shopping and I am not locked into buying all one brand, I probably shop around and just get something a little closer. The Kicker amps are just under $900, theres a lot of choices in that price range. I wouldn't intentionally try to go much beyond 75 watts on those mains, even if your main intention was to spend hours running on battery power only in a cove not the 14.4 they rate amplifiers at which saps some of your power unless they were really conservative with your rating.

On the low end I might consider the MB Quart NA710.5 and the MB Quart NA540.6, 5 channel amp is rated at 60 watts x 4 and 200 x 1 at 4 ohms and the 6 channel at 60 watts x 6 chan at 4 ohms. If you bridge the 4 main channels on the 710.5 then you would get 180 x 2 at 4 ohms. You could pick up those for $170 and $195 respectively from sonicelectronix.com vs. $330 and $550 for the Kicker amps. I am sure you could find other options. For example if you don't mind mounting 3 amps you could even get 3 4 channel amps like the Rockford Fosgate M400-4D which you can find for $200 and puts out 75 watts x 4 or bridged 200 x 2 at 4 ohms so you could run the 4 main cabins off one, the bow speakers on 2 channels plus the sub bridged on another and then both towers bridged on the 3rd.

As far as the subwoofer goes, if you already have an amp that suggest 200 watts at 4 ohms or 400 at 2 ohms then that narrows the field down some, but from there I would be looking at how much space do I have and for what type of enclosure, and how do I want it to sound, and let that determine what options there are and then narrow the focus down. For example if you went with the Kicker KM10 in a large sealed box or infinite baffle 200 watts continuous might be too much power so you would turn the gain down to avoid damage, but in a small sealed box you might be able to handle all of it.

[Puzzlescort]

well between dealers selling stock they didn't have and the delivery process from the states....last night I was able to asemble for the first time the setup so far.....

Ended up getting a deal thru a friend which I couldn't knock back for the Clarion items....
Clarion CMD7
Clarion MW1 and 25ft lead
Clarion XC6610 (1000W)
Clarion XC6410 (600W)
Kicker KM6500.2
Kicker KM6LC (3 pairs)
New Bezel to suit MW1 controller
USB bulkhead cable
Bullet style Speaker Cans (just as cheap to buy with speakers in them>>>)



Budget couldn't stretch to the WS 420 or sub just yet but this will be a vast improvement over what is in the boat now

Hopefully will be able to get it all in by the weekend for the unofficial opening of our ski season

(will post progress and final install)

[jonsquatch]

Congratulations! That sounds like a great start.

[jtosborn]

I just started to install the same head unit in my 02 SANTE. Stuck with Clarion to minimize wiring changes and assumed it would fit the same installation bolts as the stock unit....I assumed wrong. Did you end up making/finding a bracket to install it?