JL 12W7 foam surround rotted out - be warned.

[flaudia402]

So in 2008 I upgraded the entire system in my boat. One of the things I added was a JL Audio 12W7. The boat is kept on a lift year round, in a fully enclosed boat house with a cover. It is completely shielded from all rain/sun/water. Even still, the south Florida humidity and weather takes its toll on things. I've kept damp rid and an electrical dehumidifier in the boat especially around the AV equipment to minimize any moisture issues. The boat isn't used nearly as much as I'd like, and was stored this past year without much usage. I went out to clean it up since I was having it serviced today, and I was just checking out the subwoofer and I noticed the foam surround had dry rotted out. I was a little alarmed, but half expected it. After searching around on Google it seems this is a fairly common issue, and even occurs to people who have these subs installed in their cars. As I said, high heat and humidity spares nothing.

Fortunately, there's a few dealers local to me who have dealt with this same issue numerous times and have foam replacements. It's something I can likely tackle, but will probably pay them to do it since they're more experienced with the task. I'm not sure I'll be putting this back in the boat, and am likely going to look for a replacement with a full rubber surround. I like the Wet Sounds XS-XXX subwoofer, but $700 is more than I'm looking to spend especially with how little use the boat gets anymore - especially after spending this the first time around on the JL. I may look into Image Dynamics since I've read that their subwoofers have a rubber surround.

Here's a couple pictures to show you the damage:

http://i.imgur.com/xi3Rpi4.png

http://i.imgur.com/yRfD5u4.png

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice, or comments are most appreciated.

Thanks!

[core-rider]

You could also go with a Kicker L7. Good output and cost efficient. I had an old RF sub do that years ago in my first boat. Foam just can't withstand those conditions for too long before breaking down.

[TxJole]

Seen many, JL will rebuild it for thinking $100 plus shipping. In fact I was shown a pile of them when I had my box built and went in saying JL this and JL that. I was talked into Cerwin Vega.

[nyryan2001]

TxJhole- I think you and I saw the same pile on the floor at SM. Yes W6s, W7s, all rotted out. I would not have believed it had I not seen it myself. Everyone loves JL subs... these variants are just not ideal for marine use.


David, Odin, Earmark--- where are you on this? Arent you the JL experts?

[David Analog]

Well first, there is no David at Earmark. He retired over a year ago.

I am aware of the stack of JL Audio woofers and the primary reasons for their failure and how a dealer uses this prop as a negative sell to push his own wares.

Foam surrounds eventually fail. Perhaps 8 years in a freshwater boat. 10 years in a car. 20 years in a home. Depending on the usage.

What they don’t share with you is the common cause for premature surround failure based on the dealers faulty installations.
˝” constructed boxes that fail in one season or less.
No terminal cup, and just a caulked wire, where the seal fails in just months.
Enclosures with really short ports that leave the woofer completely undamped at lower frequencies.
Lowpass crossover set right on top of the ported enclosure tuning frequency.
All of these wear the woofer parts out just like running a tire without air.

Also, I’ve seen many cases where the woofer surround was left to slap against hoses, tubes and cables under long excursions.

[EarmarkMarine]

TxJhole- I think you and I saw the same pile on the floor at SM. Yes W6s, W7s, all rotted out. I would not have believed it had I not seen it myself. Everyone loves JL subs... these variants are just not ideal for marine use.


David, Odin, Earmark--- where are you on this? Arent you the JL experts?

Yes, I am the expert. That is precisely why we don't have piles of bad JL Audio woofers. Earmark has installed literally hundreds (more likely over a thousand) JL Audio subwoofers over the past couple of decades, and in all that time (not counting subs that were blown due to abuse) I haven't seen enough JL Audio subwoofer failures to make a pile. Proper design and execution solves most problems before they occur.


Odin

[flaudia402]

You could also go with a Kicker L7. Good output and cost efficient. I had an old RF sub do that years ago in my first boat. Foam just can't withstand those conditions for too long before breaking down.

I'm considering a 12 or 15 L7. At this point, I'm just looking for a suitable replacement without blowing my budget.

[flaudia402]

Seen many, JL will rebuild it for thinking $100 plus shipping. In fact I was shown a pile of them when I had my box built and went in saying JL this and JL that. I was talked into Cerwin Vega.

It'll be $200 for the rebuild and $200 for shipping. There is a shop local to me that sells JL Foam surrounds and will install everything for me for less than $100. I'll likely take it there. I know the sub isn't completely gone, but I don't want to go through the hassle of replacing it again in a few years.

[flaudia402]

Yes, I am the expert. That is precisely why we don't have piles of bad JL Audio woofers. Earmark has installed literally hundreds (more likely over a thousand) JL Audio subwoofers over the past couple of decades, and in all that time (not counting subs that were blown due to abuse) I haven't seen enough JL Audio subwoofer failures to make a pile. Proper design and execution solves most problems before they occur.


Odin

Odin, I'm not in anyway discounting you or Earmark, but I can guarantee that besides a completely air conditioned garage, my boat was as sealed from the environment as possible. Much better than 95% of boats stored either on lifts in docks, or in storage facilities. So with that said, I'd be inclined to say that there will be (if not already), several disgruntled Earmark customers with JL subs with rotted foam surrounds. Maybe not tomorrow, or a few years down the road - but quite eventually. At that point, what will your response be?

One thing I will take ownership of, is the fact that the boat (and subwoofer), were not used nearly enough. Now, if someone gave me the argument that a subwoofer can dry rot due to not enough usage - I could buy that and say, that I am guilty of. Beyond that, I assume you likely steer customers to other products before recommending a JL product - especially as of recently with audio companies producing marine grade equipment for individuals wanting more than the old JL/Polk/Kicker etc.

Comparing prices - I'd venture to guess you're more likely to sell the $700 Wetsounds XS-XXX in comparison to the JL 12 or 13W7, unless your customer is for some reason particularly keen on using a JL product.

[nyryan2001]

[Laketexoma]

Lol!!!!

[David Analog]

Flaudia,
Granted, a foam surround is the wrong choice in a coastal environment with salt air and brackish elements. Typically the cause of the foam surround failing within 10 years is not dry rot. I’m sure you have seen dry-rotted rubber tires. I had a customer with destroyed butyl rubber surrounds on all of his six patio speakers that were salt water immersion tested as a true marine speaker. It took only three seasons before he noticed the damage. I owned the exact same outdoor Boston Acoustics speaker model for 15 years just 20 miles away. I finally replaced them when the pool chlorine rusted the stainless steel grills….but the surrounds were still fine.
By the time a woofer’s surround shows failure, the internal spider is likely fatigued and long gone even though there may be no physical evidence. It would be a mistake to re-foam without a corresponding and full re-coning which includes a spider replacement.
A rubber surround by no means makes a speaker a marine product. A linen spider has no additional resistance to marine elements.

[EarmarkMarine]

Odin, I'm not in anyway discounting you or Earmark, but I can guarantee that besides a completely air conditioned garage, my boat was as sealed from the environment as possible. Much better than 95% of boats stored either on lifts in docks, or in storage facilities. So with that said, I'd be inclined to say that there will be (if not already), several disgruntled Earmark customers with JL subs with rotted foam surrounds. Maybe not tomorrow, or a few years down the road - but quite eventually. At that point, what will your response be?

One thing I will take ownership of, is the fact that the boat (and subwoofer), were not used nearly enough. Now, if someone gave me the argument that a subwoofer can dry rot due to not enough usage - I could buy that and say, that I am guilty of. Beyond that, I assume you likely steer customers to other products before recommending a JL product - especially as of recently with audio companies producing marine grade equipment for individuals wanting more than the old JL/Polk/Kicker etc.

Comparing prices - I'd venture to guess you're more likely to sell the $700 Wetsounds XS-XXX in comparison to the JL 12 or 13W7, unless your customer is for some reason particularly keen on using a JL product.

Flaudia402,

I don't think that you caused the surround to deteriorate by lack of use, and without physically inspecting the subwoofer I can't say what the true cause of failure is. If the surround is truly deteriorated by rot (due to environmental issues) the harsh southern Florida salty air may have been a contributing factor. Being in north Texas, most of our customers aren't exposed to those type of conditions.

We have sold and installed quite a few JL Audio subwoofers with foam surrounds. Earlier versions of JL woofers had foam surrounds, not just the W7 but all of their subwoofers. Even then, it was extremely rare for us to see a surround failure. Not that it's never happened, but it is extremely rare in my experience with JL Audio subwoofers.

Treated foam probably is not the most environmentally resistant material that a subwoofer surround could be made from. However, JL Audio used that foam in the W7 for a very good reason and that is because it performed the best on that particular subwoofer. Keep in mind that JL Audio is a speaker designer, fabricator, and manufacturer. JL Audio built the W7 from the ground up, starting with the conception, and they manufacture every single part of it by hand, in Florida. The W7 was first built in 2001, and 8 US patents were issued for the W7 alone. Most of those original W7 subwoofers are still out there performing well. Unlike the majority of car audio "manufacturers" who often shop for components in China and have a Chinese factory assemble their products from off-the-shelf components, JL Audio designs and manufacturers most of their subwoofers in the USA, maintaining complete control over the process from conception to shipping. The W7 is THE premier car audio subwoofer on the market. I don't question why JL Audio used treated foam for their surround any more that I would question why Rolls Royce used a particular material in building their flagship Phantom automobile - I would trust that they were the best judge of what materials to use based on them being the designed and manufacturer. I can guarantee you that no expense was spared on the W7, and no material was chosen for any reason other than the absolute best performance on that particular platform.

Having said all of that, things fail. Moving parts fail by design, it is inevitable that any moving part will eventually fail. That's true for stereo parts, car parts, body parts, you name it, if it moves it will eventually fail. The latest W7 is a $1000 MSRP and $899 "street price" subwoofer in stores. JL Audio will completely refurbish the subwoofer after it is out of warranty for $285. That's not chump change, $285 is a lot of money. But if you can get the absolute best subwoofer on the planet completely refurbished for less than 1/3 of the price of a new one I think it's a reasonable deal, considering most of our customers will get a solid decade or more of performance from this subwoofer without needing to be refurbished.

I can't say what exactly caused your failure, and if you were closer to me I'd take a look and get your woofer refurbished for you and make sure there were no other potential issues. In some customer's vehicles and boats I have seen premature subwoofer surround failure caused by poor installation or enclosure design, surrounds banging against parts of the boat, storage lockers or car trunks with junk touching the surround, and objects poked through the surround. It happens.

I hope you won't be soured on the W7 by the surround failure if you liked the 6 years of performance that you got out of the subwoofer. If you like, I'd be glad to reach out to JL Audio for you and see if they have any insight as to why the surround may have deteriorated and see if they have anything to advise on the subject.

Odin

[aZ`]

I bought 2 w3's back in 2001, they spent a decade in cars. A few years in storage and not quite one season in boat and they looked just like yours. I figured they had a good run. Bought a foam kit online for about $20 each. Installed them myself and they're back to performing like new.

I think 6 years in a marine environment is a reasonable run. Pay the $20-$30 spend an hour on it and get back on the water for another 6 years, it will be far more painless than finding someone to blame for an inevitable failure.