HLCD or high power coaxials for tower

[scottb7]

I am trying to decide between HLCD or high power coaxials for my tower. The will exclusively be used for surfing and maybe swimming around the boat. The amp I have is the alpine pdx-4 100m. I already own this amp and it is installed, and I already own speaker cans for 6.5 inch speakers.

The amp has these power options: RMS Continuous Power (at 14.4V , 20 - 20 kHz )
∙ Per channel into 4 ohms (≤1%THD+N) .................................................. ............................. 100W x 4
∙ Per channel into 2 ohms (≤1%THD+N) .................................................. ............................. 100W x 4
∙ Bridged into 4 ohms (≤1%THD+N).......................................... ........................................... 200W x 2


So I am thinking about either of these 2:

Option 1. high power coaxials - Polk Audio AA2652-A MM651UM 6.5-Inch Coax Ultra Marine Speaker http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-AA2652-A-MM651UM-6-5-Inch/dp/B001E5PN2A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420664902&sr=8-1&keywords=polk+um These speakers are Power Handling
Continuous: 100 watts
Peak: 200 watts

So I would then not bridge and send 100 watts into them.

Option 2. Krpts 6.5 HLCD Krypt 6.5" HLCD Wakeboard Tower Speakers - LOUD SPEAKER http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-AA2...ywords=polk+um

These speakers are

RMS Power	150 Watts
Peak Power	300 Watts

And Krypt confirmed I could bridge @ 4 ohms 200W.

So please give me your thoughts, thanks in advance. One friend told me that coaxials will not be loud enough even at surfing distance. And even the krypt guy says he prefers HLCD's for surfing. I am not convinced in that there are low power and high power coaxials. My point is that good ol wetsounds sells the icon 8 coaxials which they say are good for surfing and in/around the boat they are rated at 150 rms/300 peak. So I guess that means coaxials can work for this application. But does that mean that the polks powered at 100 will not be loud enough?

[MLA]

If you are wanting a dedicated surf/party cove setup, steer clear of a 6.5" HLCD. 8" HLCD at a minimum, 10" like the Rev-10 is best. If you go with a 6.5 coaxial, I would suggest 2 pair. An 8" coaxial like the Icon-8, JL 7.7 or Kicker KM8 is going to naturally be louder than a 6.5" as well as yield deeper mid-bass. A single pair of Icon-8 or the other 2, on your amp would be the way I would go and a pair of Rev-10 would be a step up from their with even more mid-bass.

[David Analog]

Neither is a good option in my opinion. Here's why....
The Krypt 6.5" HLCD is brutal. Bright and strident. No midbass. Very unbalanced as are all 6.5" HLCDs. The Krypt is particularly unmusical. The smallish midbass just cannot keep pace and balance with the dominant horn tweeter. The midbass driver basket and motor plus the compression tweeter driver, once loaded into the 6.5" pod, leaves almost no remaining displacement so that is another midbass subtraction. It takes both surface area AND pod displacement to produce lower midrange and midbass.
The Polk UM is a really good sounding speaker for in-boat applications. Very smooth and natural sounding. But this is a speaker that is intended for the expansive cavity of a boat's gunnel, or a vehicle's trunk or door. So when placed in a tiny tower pod the low frequency cut-off point shoots skyward. Again, not much midbass as compared to how this speaker can sound when used as designed. The natural warmth of this speaker doesn't play well when it needs to project and competing with engine noise plus movement. Not enough treble emphasis to cut through.
So two options that represent the extremes.
I recommend the Wetsounds Icon8. As an 8-inch, it's got the greater surface area. And it has the right voicing & balance to listen at rest and when surfing. Not too bright or too warm. Designed for your specific application and will work perfectly with your 2 X 200 watts.

[scottb7]

Ok, I will save up for the icon 8's. I really appreciate the reminder that once in a while you get what you pay for.

[RacingSims]

Don't want to hijack the thread but will 2 rev 10's sound that much better than 4 rev 8's. Just looking for swimming and cove. Almost ready to try the Icon's

[David Analog]

RC,
I'm wondering what elusive quality you are not getting?
By the numbers, if both options are fully powered, two Rev10s will gain no output advantage over four Rev8s.
The Rev8 and Rev10 do sound different. Comparing the two....
The Rev8 has a slight convex curve favoring the middle (upper mids/treble) frequencies. Using a perfect sound quality reference, the middle frequencies are a little up front on some recordings, particularly crappy recordings. But on an older Telarc or similar high quality and warmer analog recording they sound fantastic. The Rev8 has no trouble mating the midbass driver to the tweeter. In other words, there is no hole in the response.
The Rev10 has a slight concave response with a slight but broad null through the upper mids/treble frequencies. This serves to actually conceal some of the strident qualities found in many recordings and frequencies that you are known to be very sensitive to. In the case of a larger 10" proaxial, it is hard for a tweeter to get low enough, or a midbass to get high enough for a perfect union. The exception would be the Rev410 because of the much larger tweeter & horn. Also the Rev10 has a bit of extra accentuation in the upper highs, well above the fundamentals and well into the range of the upper harmonics. This gives the highs, especially percussion, a bit more of a distinctive quality.
The Rev10, because of the extra surface area and pod displacement does have a bit more midbass extension. Of course no tower speaker in a small pod and elevated eight feet off the water plane in an open environment will develop commanding midbass.
Four Rev8s are a perfect candidate for equalization when used as a SQ speaker when swimming and at the cove. Perhaps a more sophisticated option than a four band EQ. But a four band EQ can still help if you know how to use it correctly. Probably wouldn't use any EQ for listening underway at wake range.

[RacingSims]

Thanks David for the explanation.I just have not fallen in love with the sound however it may be time to add the 420 to the mix to tune the sound a bit. I feel I have it powered correctly just missing something. Using 2 HT6's and an HT4. 1 for the 6 in boats. 1 HT6 for the jl audio 10" IB sub which sound great and pair of rev 8's. and the other HT4 for the second pair of Rev 8's

[David Analog]

RS,
You may find that you do not need a great deal of in-boat equalization. It's different with each system and each boat. If that's the case, then a more comprehensive EQ, like a 10-band hide-away Audio Control, might serve the tower zone better. This gives you a better chance to mirror the desired output curve. 10 bands can better pinpoint and shape the sound than 4 bands can. Also, with the right appendage you can take the EQ processing out of the loop with a simple toggle when boarding. Best of both worlds.

[swatguy]

I have owned the Krypts a while back. I can definitely say you do not want them in a surf setup. They are extremely bright and "tinny". While a great budget option to get tunes back to the rider near field they would really sound like crap. You hear all highs as the horn out works the mid bass driver at all levels. While the stereo gurus may flame me because they are not Wetsounds,the Krypts actually sounded awesome for a 6.5 HLCD at the time. I never had one issue, I hammered on them for 3 seasons with 200watts to each and they withstood everything. A buddy still has them and they are going on 8 yrs old I believe still cranking. So a quality product in my eyes, just not at all useful for what you're looking for.