"Budget" amps

[toomuchuv]

Was wondering what people's thoughts were about so-called "budget" amps? I found this one and has very impressive numbers and fantastic reviews: Precision Power PPI P900.4 ($175.00)
I am wondering how it can be so much cheaper than say a SYN4 ($500+). I know its not a marine grade amp but that doesn't bother me because I am not near salt water... The Polks are fairly reasonable as well considering their ability.... I know back in the old school days (A/B) the more expensive amps were built like brick @#$%houses so they were worth the extra but it seems with Class D amps that gap is much narrower.

Thoughts?

[MLA]

Its easy to keep the price down when polk and ppi are using the same platform as NVS and soundstream thats supplied by the same build house. Higher circulation. Also, very little R&D on their part and not much more by the actual designer/build house. Very basic controls that are cheap and not very accurate. Bare minimum power supplies. Although one may feel that a marine built amp is not a plus for them, you cant toss out that feature when trying to justify the cost difference. More to an amp then just making the wattage.

[swatguy]

As far as budget goes it kind of depends on what you're powering. I can tell you I know personally over dozen people using that to push Rev 8's and Rev 10's. I myself ran that amp for a bit during my recent boat swap in order to get my Til I could snatch up a Syn 4. As MLA mentioned the controls as far as crossover frquency and gain nobs are really hard to determine exactly where they are at in the grand scheme of things. The amp is tiny in size so it also makes mounting easy.

Are there better amps out there with more features. Hands down yes , are there better amps for that price and for what you get with that PPI I would argue not. Can the trained ear tell a power and sound difference. I am willing to bet yes. However in an open environment that sound quality difference to those of us normal people is almost zero. It's great choice for staying on a a budget.

Also one misnomer you mentioned. It's not really salt that degrades the amp it's actual humidity , condensation and temp changes as well. Even the most well cared for boats experience moisture issues. It's a gamble you take with the "standard". Gear. I can say I have run standard stereo amps way before marine amps and put well over 1000 hours on non marine amps with great success. I know some buddies down in Florida and South Carolina that haven't had that success because of the moisture issues 2 seasons as a good run for them.

[nukemustang]

even cheaper at amazon, also free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Powe.../dp/B005KVEPVO

[trip33]

As a follow on to Swat's comment about humidity, I run a small dehumidifier in the compartment under the observer seat where all of the amps are located and it stays full all the time. Now I modified it with some tubing from the reservoir so that it self drains down into the bilge. Not sure if anyone else does this or can comment on the efficacy but I figured with all the $$ in amps and sub down in that compartment a $50 humidifier would provide some peace of mind. I guess we will see where I am in a cople seasons....

[MLA]

Trip,

If the boat is covered, then you are just basically circulating the same humid air.

[MLA]

"Can the trained ear tell a power and sound difference. I am willing to bet yes. However in an open environment that sound quality difference to those of us normal people is almost zero."

I sure wish I could find this post im hunting for. IIRC, it was made by a correct craft owner and forum member. I know I saw it on TMC, but may have made it here as well. It speaks directly to your point. To paraphrase: after years of cheaper amps, the contributor pulled the trigger on top shelf amps, JL i believe, and finally realized that the sales pitch from others, was not really a sales pitch at all. The difference was clear, pardon the pun.

[toomuchuv]

I used very high quality amps back in my old car audio days. PG MS275 and MPS2240 with Macrom fronts, JL W6 subs, etc. etc.. The soundstage was incredible. In a boat, as swatguy mentioned, it is impossible to achieve that same sound quality (for the most part). That being said, I am wondering if the PPI can deliver the same "thump" as some of the more expensive amps? If I switched out my Polk stuff for a couple SYN4s (or JL, or...), would I go WOW, that was worth over double the money??????

[JoeA]

Maybe ARC Audio is middle ground and up for consideration?

[toomuchuv]

even cheaper at amazon, also free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Powe.../dp/B005KVEPVO

Reviews are very positive there as well!!!

[David Analog]

"Can the trained ear tell a power and sound difference. I am willing to bet yes. However in an open environment that sound quality difference to those of us normal people is almost zero."

I sure wish I could find this post im hunting for. IIRC, it was made by a correct craft owner and forum member. I know I saw it on TMC, but may have made it here as well. It speaks directly to your point. To paraphrase: after years of cheaper amps, the contributor pulled the trigger on top shelf amps, JL i believe, and finally realized that the sales pitch from others, was not really a sales pitch at all. The difference was clear, pardon the pun.

That was nyryan2001 over on TMC commenting about running his tower Rev10s on JL Audio HD750/1s. One pair. One monoblock amplifier.
He has a history of posts on this forum also.

[swatguy]

In the realm of things there is always the high end option. Does it mean the mid range is complete garbage and not worth considering? I get both of you guys are high end audio guys. There is no doubt that you get better performance by going with higher end gear, I think everyone knows that. However not everyone wants to drop $$$$$ for the absolute best sounding system. Does that mean their need for midrange stuff makes it sound like complete crap?

[MLA]

In the realm of things there is always the high end option. Does it mean the mid range is complete garbage and not worth considering? I get both of you guys are high end audio guys. There is no doubt that you get better performance by going with higher end gear, I think everyone knows that. However not everyone wants to drop $$$$$ for the absolute best sounding system. Does that mean their need for midrange stuff makes it sound like complete crap?

Swat,

Your reply seems to be directed at comments I did not make. Toomuchuv asked a very clear question, to justify the cost difference between a premium marine amp and a price-point car amp. I think that was answered and without advocating for the top shelf or against the price point.

Second, I would not consider the ppi and their shared platforms under various labels, to be mid-grade, but rather entry level price point. Higher on the ladder then say boss or pyle, but not mid-range.

My previous post on the subject was about an actual consumer that made the switch to high end.

[swatguy]

His post came after your reply Mike so my response was aimed to kind of put both of those up for debate. You mentioned in your post about NRyan that he finally saw the light about SQ. I just think that's moot. I think every single person that buys quality stereo gear knows that the high end gear without a doubt gives you the best sound. What we are looking for here is something different. We are looking for that point at which you give up some of that sq for a better price, but looking for the answer of what is the right price amp combo to still get decent sq without breaking the bank.


I have had all the high end gear. I am currently running Syn 6 and an Arc KS 600.2 . I have had JL, zapco, NVS, Krypt Audio, and few Wetsounds amps( couple Syn 4's and 2's) in my systems over the years. I have also had Kicker , PPI, Soundstream and Polk in there to fill the gaps as I was building systems. I am not saying this to brag just to offer real world experience. Your guys expertise is well known. All I am saying is that you're going to pay x for PPI /kicker/Polk etc and going to pay y for Wetsounds,JL,and Arc. That's a given. The sound quality difference is also a given. What's not a given and that everyone is always trying to decide is if the sound quality difference matches the price difference.


My argument is this, to the experts and audiophiles it is always is worth it and they can't ever phathom not having the cleanest crispest sound, but to the average joe on a budget they can still achieve quality sound at the price point to a certain degree. Did my Rev 10's sound better off my Syn 4 than my PPI 900.4. Without a doubt there was some sound clarity enhancements for sure. Did it sound $400 bucks better?????? I would argue no, but I think someone who really has an ear would say yes worth every penny. I also think how someone plans to use their system relates way more to the "level" of gear they need to buy. If you're gonna hammer on your system all day in 100degree weather then you better pony up or you will get burnt.

If we were comparing the Syn 4 to the PPI 900.4 what other suggestions would be in between those ? Since you don't value the PPI as a midrange amp solution what would be? David feel free to chime in as well. Would it be fair to say the Syn 4 / JL 750/1 and the SD 4 are all high end? I am not asking to be an a$&@ I am inquiring because this is the question that pops up the most on these forums. Someone mentioned Arc. The Arc KS 300.4 falls in this category, but that is also in the 550.00 range so price has it at the higher end of the spectrum too

[toomuchuv]

Swatguy, you answered my question perfectly! I was looking for some "real world" answers and you have had both of the amps I was asking about. Like I said before, I have always had very good quality audio equipment, both at home and in my vehicles and consider myself to have a keen ear. But for my boats, I feel the need to spend a PILE of money is a waste. You cannot create the same soundstage by virtue of speaker placement alone. I believe the real goal is to have a loud system that doesn't sound like crap when you push it. Can the PPI achieve this? I think so (from what I'm reading). I don't think anyone can argue that it's numbers are pretty impressive. And they are REAL numbers as proven by the bench test on one of the retailers sites.....

I would just hate to put a bunch of money out for a couple WS amps and go meh at the end of the day. As a Canadian, we are lucky to have to add another 40% on top of the US price! That really makes me go mehhhhhhh!!!