G23 stock stereo upgrade

[OxDoc]

I just wrapped up my stereo install for my 2016 G23. I'll do a more detailed post of my set-up at a later time, but I'd recommend sticking with the stock JLs in the boat. Personal preference on tower...but you're looking at great stuff IMO. I went with two pair of Rev-10s this time and am excited to see how they preform. They sound great in the shop, as do the JL inboats...with more power. I added two 12" subs that were cut out in the stock locations (second is under helm). Pretty amazing sound with vents in both locations, but even upgrading to 1 12" sub in the stock location is a huge improvement, especially if you vent the locker.

Would love opinions from anyone that has put a new JL 12" Infinite Baffle Sub in the stock location. I have a Polk 12" DB Series sub which is not Infinite Baffle installed in both stock locations, and quite frankly it sounds amazing ( and they're totally inexpensive) powered by a Wet Sounds SD 6 (585 X 3 @ 4 ohms, not using third channel--yet). That said, I wonder what a true infinite baffle sub will do under the locker and under the helm in those stock locations. If anyone has direct experience, please let me know.

If you want to not go crazy, the stock amps are wonderful amps. Just look to add to them. For premium option, consider Wet Sounds or JL audio MHD amps. Can't go wrong with either. Good luck.

Can you still add a extra sub under the helm if you didn't order the upgraded audio option that comes with the second sub? My boat is coming with the stock stereo and I would love to do this if it's possible without too much of a hassle. I also thought about having my stereo shop add the 6.5's under the dash like wavefront and add the vents.

[OxDoc]

Just a couple of things I wanted to point out.

First, even though you can't see it, the under-seat storage where the sub lives is indeed vented on 2016+ G-series boats. The vents are under the side pads (above the cupholders). Stick your head in there and look up. You'll see the holes. This was part of JL's requirements when specing their systems for our boats. Going to a larger sub, you might benefit from additional venting though. I am not sure.

Second, if you're installing a 12" sub, consider the Roswell sub box, even if you don't get thier sub. It is already the right shape for the floor, and fits very nicely.

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I will look into that for sure. Its funny that on my first boat my wife thought spending money on a upgraded boat stereo was crazy. Now she's the one pushing me to do it. In my opinion the stereo adds a lot to the boating experience.

[David Analog]

I have heard each, but not side by side. I had icons on my last boat and was able to listen to the jl's on a g23 in the showroom. I have no idea if the speakers in the showroom were powered properly or not, but I thought the jl's had a more natural sound. I would love to be able to compare both at the same time, but I'm not sure thats possible. How would you quantify the sound of the JL 8.8 and Icon 8 tower speakers, and do you think the jl's would be as loud as the wetsounds.

The Wetsounds uses a hard dome tweeter that is more aggressive. And that's good for projection on the tower considering that with distance challenges and noise competition the extra brightness survives and provides a bit more intelligibility.
The JL Audio uses a larger soft dome with a lower natural resonance and bridges the midbass to tweeter gap smoothly. It is voiced very natural and is very authentic on wide range instruments such as piano, vocals, and everything midrange.
People are generally split into one camp or another. A little extra high frequency accentuation of the Wetsounds lends itself to a perception of being more distinctive sounding. The smooth JL Audio midband lends itself to a more authentic sound. It's always subjective and it's good to have two excellent products that contrast a little.
If equally powered I think the two speakers have a very similar average output. Given how loud the Icon8 will play and how well it projects for a non-HLCD, that's giving the JL Audio a lot of credit. The JL Audio 880 is a major departure from the 770 in output.
When you place the JL Audio 880 in a small tower pod it no longer has 100% of the warmth and midbass that you would expect in a coaming application, as is the case with all tower speaker/pods.

[LakePowellMan]

Can you still add a extra sub under the helm if you didn't order the upgraded audio option that comes with the second sub? My boat is coming with the stock stereo and I would love to do this if it's possible without too much of a hassle. I also thought about having my stereo shop add the 6.5's under the dash like wavefront and add the vents.

Yes. I ordered the base system, and still added the second 12" sub, of course enlarging the hole since it's plumbed or a 10".

[LakePowellMan]

About the JL Audio 12-inch infinite baffle. This is going to be a monster subwoofer....like no other infinite baffle sub.
The Polk Audio DB and MM are all low 'Q' air suspension woofers. At lower power levels it's okay. At higher power levels when used incorrectly in an infinite baffle they are way too loose and under-damped for my taste. Too much boat vibration, lacking transient attack, and missing tight tonal construction. Whenever the stock Polk woofer was upgraded to a JL Audio 10-inch true high 'Q' IB woofer it has always been a major improvement.
But now we are talking the new JL Audio 12-inch IB sub. Here's my one concern. The boat. For this serious sub, is the factory environment going to permit this sub to reach anything close to its potential. Meaning, is the mounting baffle thick and rigid enough as is? Is there really full front to rear acoustic isolation with the baffle cavity leading into the gunnel, bilge, and bow cavities as is?

Great information! Thank you. I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone has tried one out and can give me some real world feedback. But, let me put you on the spot. You're a pro. You've seen these boats and know what's there. In your opinion, do you think I'll see $700 worth of bass improvement by going with the new JL 12" IB sub? Thanks for sharing your opinion!

[David Analog]

Great information! Thank you. I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone has tried one out and can give me some real world feedback. But, let me put you on the spot. You're a pro. You've seen these boats and know what's there. In your opinion, do you think I'll see $700 worth of bass improvement by going with the new JL 12" IB sub? Thanks for sharing your opinion!

Well I was a pro, but now I'm retired from the industry and three years removed.
To answer your question in part. The woofer investment and the upgrade power to drive it, based on what I know about this new JL Audio 12-inch IB sub, should be worth it.
But I think some custom work needs to be done on the boat to make for a better IB environment. So the results are going to vary depending on who executes the project, their knowledge of acoustics, and their skill in system tuning.
I run into this often where opinions vary and it's actually the execution difference rather than a product difference.

[Truekaotik]

Actually, the 808 and icon-8 are cousins and thats as close as it gets. Both are in the 8" class of speaker, but thats it. Quite a few differences in in order to make the 808 work best in an IB coaming pad and the icon-8 work best in a small sealed pod. Same as JL for years, offering a tower 7.7 version and a different in-boat 7.7.

But hey, just one audio god correcting another, right True-K

There it goes.... so please explain "the quite a few differences" that matters over a basic they are basically the same?

[OxDoc]

The JL m650 inboat speakers are rated at 75 watts and the M880 towers speakers are rated at 125 watts. How many watts max could you throw at these speakers and still be in the safe range?

[MLA]

The 2016 port locker vents arent enough. Still a huge difference when the door is opened.

Unless the 2016 factory baffle has been beefed up, its not enough to support a 12" with additional wattage.

For an in-boat, 75W is very solid wattage. They tend to not need the wattage as a tower speaker would, especially when there are 3-4 pairs. If one wanted to push them, then drive them in the 125W range.

For the 8" towers, the 200W rms mark is a goo number.

[Wayward]

I am just about finished with my stereo upgrade. I didn't go too crazy on this one.

-Left the stock 6.5 JL in-boats on the original M800/8, so they will still be on 75 watts per channel. This seems to be plenty on the 6.5s, when there is 8 of them in the boat.
-Removed port IB10, built a flat floor substrate, and added 2 JL M10W5 sealed 10s in it's place.
-Left the starboard IB10 in place
-Added the 2 JL 8.8s, and 2 JL 7.7s to the tower, powered by another 800/8. Bridged for 200w per channel x 4.
-Swapped the original HU for a Fusion 750 with helm and transom remotes.
-Currently building, and vinyl wrapping my custom compartment vents.

The setup should be done fairly soon, and I will post pics.

I am not sure what the base stereo comes with for powering the 6 in-boat speakers, but if it is a M600/6, I would think it is probably plenty for the stock setup. (Just based on the performance of the M800/8 on the studio elite setup with 8 in-boats.)

From my experience of comparing the 2 sub setups, the sealed 10s blow the IB10s away. One sealed 10 is loader, and much tighter, than the 2 IB10s running at the same time. Also, I found that the IB10s sounded worse with the ballast full, as it seems that the front ballast bag cuts off a whole lot of the baffle when it is full. It might have been my imagination, but it sure seemed that they didn't sound nearly as good with the front ballast full. Nonetheless, I am very glad I swapped to the sealed 10s.

As Jeff noted, I did notice the factory vents for the subs, and I do believe they help. However, a large vent under the observer seat still makes a HUGE difference.

[David Analog]

Wayward's experience goes hand in hand with what some of my concerns are. A correctly executed and true 10" IB sub does a good job. When it isn't, it is more about execution flaws than the general nature of infinite baffle. Yes, an acoustic suspension sub (intended for a small sealed enclosure) usually has more linear control with a longer excursion than an infinite baffle type sub. However, excursion is a distant second to surface area when it comes to making bass efficiently. In that respect a 10 is a 10. So if a 10" IB is compromised then the potential of a 12" IB will be shackled even more.
Part of the challenge is that neither of the scenarios offer a direct radiating option. So you've got significant output losses and significant group delay. Add to that an imperfect mounting baffle and an imperfect infinite baffle enclosure/isolation.
The vent/aperture that allows the bass radiation to freely flow through from the compartment needs to have an acoustically transparent surface area at least equal to that of the driver. So the venting needs to ideally grow in size when upgrading from a 10" to 12". And that's not always easy to do. The losses are greater when the vent is located in the pass-thru walkway versus directly into the cockpit. Plus, venting positioned lower and closer to the sole helps a great deal.

[Beg4wake]

Here's JL Audio's video regarding the G23/25....just for input, it points out the ported holes they added for the '16 models...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcxWsVaB8U8

[David Analog]

Quote, "Why ported vs bandpass, sealed, or bass reflex?"

I think bandpass would be an ideal approach if done correctly. Why? With the right plan the singular port output could be direct radiating and sealed off against the vent/aperture, thereby completely nullifying the negatives of the helm compartment.
Every other option on this particular boat either places a woofer inside a vented box (the locker compartment) or places a woofer in a box (whether sealed or bass-reflex) that is placed within another vented box (the locker compartment). Bass-reflex is a vented box. Thus it has a phase delay from the port. Placing that bass acoustic circuit (bass-reflex) inside another vented enclosure (locker) magnifies the group delay. And that makes quality integration with the cockpit coaxials impossible.
In the final analysis it's a tough boat and in many cases you have to take what limitations the boat builder gives you. It's like taking the leper with the most fingers.

[LakePowellMan]

Can you still add a extra sub under the helm if you didn't order the upgraded audio option that comes with the second sub? My boat is coming with the stock stereo and I would love to do this if it's possible without too much of a hassle. I also thought about having my stereo shop add the 6.5's under the dash like wavefront and add the vents.

Here is one option...tweeters installed at the base of the windshield...

[Laketexoma]

I am just about finished with my stereo upgrade. I didn't go too crazy on this one.

-Left the stock 6.5 JL in-boats on the original M800/8, so they will still be on 75 watts per channel. This seems to be plenty on the 6.5s, when there is 8 of them in the boat.
-Removed port IB10, built a flat floor substrate, and added 2 JL M10W5 sealed 10s in it's place.
-Left the starboard IB10 in place
-Added the 2 JL 8.8s, and 2 JL 7.7s to the tower, powered by another 800/8. Bridged for 200w per channel x 4.
-Swapped the original HU for a Fusion 750 with helm and transom remotes.
-Currently building, and vinyl wrapping my custom compartment vents.

The setup should be done fairly soon, and I will post pics.

I am not sure what the base stereo comes with for powering the 6 in-boat speakers, but if it is a M600/6, I would think it is probably plenty for the stock setup. (Just based on the performance of the M800/8 on the studio elite setup with 8 in-boats.)

From my experience of comparing the 2 sub setups, the sealed 10s blow the IB10s away. One sealed 10 is loader, and much tighter, than the 2 IB10s running at the same time. Also, I found that the IB10s sounded worse with the ballast full, as it seems that the front ballast bag cuts off a whole lot of the baffle when it is full. It might have been my imagination, but it sure seemed that they didn't sound nearly as good with the front ballast full. Nonetheless, I am very glad I swapped to the sealed 10s.

As Jeff noted, I did notice the factory vents for the subs, and I do believe they help. However, a large vent under the observer seat still makes a HUGE difference.

What all amps come with the elite studio M? I know the 800/8 but what is pushing the 2 subs?