2016 G25 stereo upgrade

[MLA]

No regrets, TTR, dont look back.

[nyryan2001]

Tall I ran the 600.2 on Revs for 2yrs.

750/1 is noticeably better. Fuller, warmer sound more balanced to higher volumes. It takes a true 450-550w off a regular non-regulated amp to be able to keep pace. But then you are into very high costs and risk blowing the Revs on a burnt coil.

transition the 600.2 to power a 1000-1200w sub or perhaps your in boats. It only puts out maybe 300w x 2 at best with the boat off. And get a 750/1 on the Revs!

[sgresham]

Thank you guys so much for all of the discussion on this topic; it is really helping me a ton! It makes sense that the JL 750/1 would power the Revs better than anything else. JL amps offer true power at any ohm level, from my understanding. Back when I was a bit younger, I used a ton of JL amps in car audio, and they were rock solid, and just sounded better, even though watt should equal watt. Unfortunately, I agree with you nyryan, that just isn't the case in amp ratings.

In addition, it sounds like the PS8 is not a device I want in the boat. I don't want an extra volume knob. I think I'm going to go with 2 pairs of Rev 10s (plus I can get these white, which is a plus with a white tower ), 2 750/1s, another amp for the JL in boats, and a different sub with better venting.

It's not that the stock system isn't loud enough, or doesn't offer enough sound quality, I've just had upgraded systems in every boat I've had, and I'm used to that sound. I thought that possibly the optioned JL audio system would satisfy me, but I should have known better haha.

[Evening Shade]

Nope. 1 JL 750/1 per 2 Rev10s, 375w x2.

will absolutely outperform ANY other amp.... Unless you go into 475-550w each Rev10 territory on any of these other amps (I've had them all) and that becomes more pricey than the 750/1.

Listen to Wetsounds and Arc powering Revs, then listen to the 750/1 powering Revs. All power is not equal.

Night and day difference. There's piercing loud.... Then there's warm, balanced and LOUD.

Listen to folks on their 5th,6th, 7th build.

head unit. WS420sq. JL HD 750/1. Rev10s.

if you are feeling froggy and you want to kill the world: 2 750/1s and 4 Rev10s.

Gotcha, by the nomenclature (750/1) I thought this was only a one channel amp and would only have one out put and thus only power one speaker such as a sub.

Thanks for the good info.

[MLA]

Gotcha, by the nomenclature (750/1) I thought this was only a one channel amp and would only have one out put and thus only power one speaker such as a sub.

Thanks for the good info.

Well, you are correct, it is a mono amp and has only one chnl output.

[wetsounds1]

Let me explain what is happening with the 750/1.

I am friends with a lot of the guys at JL and have respect for those guys. So it's nothing against their product. It's this particular amplifier in this particular use.

The 750/1 is a mid range amplifier. NOT full range. Which means it does not play the full frequency range. It rolls off on the top end at 8khz. Full freq is 20hz-20khz.

So other full range amplifiers are playing up to 20khz. When running this amplifier. Amps should not color the sound, they should be transparent. You are just not hearing anything above 8khz. So less highs and less horn, so being called "warm" it's actually just no highs being played. Volume wise. Your missing a lot of freq so you might wind up cranking the gain up and perception is more volume.

I will tell you the number one amp we have seen on blown tower speakers is this amp. I think it's the above reasons. Guys are not getting the full freq range so wind up cranking the gains into distortion and since there is not as much highs, it might not be as noticeable on distortion you would hear won highs and horns being played all the way up.

I do not recommend this amplifier. I know other guys like it and recommend it. David formerly of earmark likes it. However, I think a lot has to do with a particular sound style people prefer. I prefer to hear all the sound and have that extra sizzle on the top end. I know David is an old school 2 ch audio guy. So less horns is something he prefers. He can also tune this for safe power and no distortion.

If you like the "warm" sound. You can just as easily eq a system. Take a 420 and cut the high knob down and this is what is happening or even add an outboard crossover that has bandpass ability and bandpass the tower and cut the top where you want. With any full range amplifier.

So in the end. This is what your hearing as being called "warm". The specs show the top cut off at 8khz. I don't know if this starts rolling off at 8khz and up at a slow or steep roll off or if it starts rolling off steep or slow up to 8khz.

I wanted to let everyone know what is going on so you have the right information to make the best decision

Tim
Wet Sounds

[David Analog]

Since my name was brought into the discussion...
FACT: In a blindfold test you will not hear any difference in the high frequency response between the JL Audio HD750/1 and any fullrange Class D amplifier when played on tower HLCD speakers. I've tried it personally and also asked others to join the test who had much younger ears. We all came to the same conclusion. This amplifier has been used successfully on tower speakers by countless boat owners and they are generally more than satisfied. Also, this amplifier represents no added risk, other than the fact it is very powerful.
Want a few technical explanations? I'll be glad to provide them.
I'm not advocating the JL Audio HD750/1 is the only amplifier to consider, but I can show why some of the above statements against the HD750/1 are not accurate.
One manufacturer should not comment on another manufacturer's product. They simply do not have a complete understanding of the competing product.

[nyryan2001]

Tim, You'd get your feelings hurt in a Wetsounds 400w x2 versus 750/1 powered Revs side by side comparison.

The only way a Wetsounds amplifier can complete with the 750/1 in SQ, balance and warmth is to get into the ~500w x 2 range to get the same quality of sound at the same volume. And that's not cheap with WS gear.

While Wetsounds does everything very well, and superior in most things... Definitely Not above JL HD amps.

[wetsounds1]

Ryan, sorry but have to disagree with you on that one big time. I won't get feelings hurt because I've heard them all and IMHO, the Wet Sounds SD Is second to none.. But eveyone has their own opinion and both are the highest quality products out there so consumers have great choices. we can agree to disagree

Tim
Wet Sounds

[Evening Shade]

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread, but it may help the OP with his decision. I'm trying to learn from this thread as well. I've replaced stereo equipment in boats a couple times and don't want to spend a fortune in the future by making poor decisions on speakers and amps because I don't have good dealer network to be able to hear products side by side. I will say that the cheapest way to do something is to do it once. Even if the initial investment is expensive, it's much cheaper than doing it twice.

I'm a novice, but I understand what Tim is saying about the 750/1 not being a full range amp and it makes sense to me. As I understand it, mono amps are not full range amps and are typically meant to power one sub which is not a full range speaker. So how do you power a pair of full range speakers like Rev 10s with a mono block amp? The single output must be split I assume.

[David Analog]

Mono works out very well on the tower when the signal is correctly summed at the input of the amplifier. On a tight horizontal tower speaker array there is no physical stereo image because the speakers are packed in so close together. With only two speakers split apart on the tower, the sweet spot for stereo is too small of a space to be of benefit. Off axis in stereo you are only hearing one channel for the most part. Mono provides full content across the broadest dispersion pattern. So mono is very popular on the tower versus in the boat. However, the best audio systems on large cruisers with exceptionally wide beams will alternate left and right down each side of the boat because hearing all the music content in any given location takes precedent.

[David Analog]

Most people really do not understand specs and typically how unqualified they really are.
What most people don't realize is that a Class D amplifier is not digital in any sense. It's a switching analog amplifier. The high switching frequency must be removed from the music material via a passive inductor in the final stage of the output. Look inside any Class D amplifier and you will find a coil as the final element before each output terminal. It may be contained in a small capsule but it's there. Now the value of the inductor is determined by the output impedance. But Class D amplifiers don't usually give you different frequency responses at different impedances. And most don't give a frequency response within a qualifier of a given decibel range. In the case of JL Audio, because of their very conservative approach to specifications, they rate the frequency response flat (+/- 0.5 dB) into an impedance load down to 1.5 ohms, even though this load is lower than anyone will ever use with two fullrange speakers in parallel. So JL Audio is just covering their bases where other manufacturers may not be as thorough.
I've tested what are referred to as Class D fullrange amplifiers and with many the output voltage falls off with a 20 kHz sine wave versus a 1 kHz sine wave into a 4-ohm load. It falls off more into a 2-ohm load. Even many of the triple darlington Class AB amplifiers roll-off before 20 kHz. So let's get real.
Would I use the JL Audio HD750/1 on $1200 Focal components inside a luxury car with $1000 worth of sound damping installed? No. On a tower HLCD? Absolutely.
Can you hear 20 kHz? Oh **** no!
Will the HD750/1 response extend to what you can hear on a tower HLCD? Absolutely.
Does a tower HLCD extend to 20 kHz? No.

[David Analog]

So why doesn't a tower HLCD extend to 20 kHz? The titanium diaphragm and voice coil at the heart of the typical compression tweeter will generally be around 1.5". The tweeter plays into a compression chamber which is connected to the throat of the horn and reduced at the throat to 1" or less. The half wavelength of 20 kHz is so short that even with a phase plug at the base of the horn throat, all the radiation from all parts of the larger diaphragm will not be in phase as it passes through the compression chamber and out the throat. Thus, in exchange for getting a massive boost in sensitivity you sacrifice some high frequency range. If you'll go to Parts Express and view many of the compression tweeters, even the ultra expensive models, you might find 10 dB of high frequency roll-off at 20 kHz, or perhaps a major dip at 15 kHz.
Can you hear it? No.
None of you that listen to loud music can hear 20 kHz. Maybe a 12 year old girl can. But you cannot.
OMG. We haven't even talked about the crappy compressed and frequency-limited formats people use today.

[David Analog]

Do I hold the Wetsounds SD amplifiers in high regard? Absolutely. There are certain applications where I would recommend it over any other amplifier.
I can say the exact same about the JL Audio HD amplifiers.
Does a competitor of JL Audio comprehend all the workings of what is inside a JL Audio amplifier? Not hardly.
Are dealers who do not carry JL Audio a good source of information about JL Audio amplifiers? No. They are likely the worst source if you want quality information.
And you can bet the inverse would also hold true.

[MLA]

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread, but it may help the OP with his decision. I'm trying to learn from this thread as well. I've replaced stereo equipment in boats a couple times and don't want to spend a fortune in the future by making poor decisions on speakers and amps because I don't have good dealer network to be able to hear products side by side. I will say that the cheapest way to do something is to do it once. Even if the initial investment is expensive, it's much cheaper than doing it twice.

I'm a novice, but I understand what Tim is saying about the 750/1 not being a full range amp and it makes sense to me. As I understand it, mono amps are not full range amps and are typically meant to power one sub which is not a full range speaker. So how do you power a pair of full range speakers like Rev 10s with a mono block amp? The single output must be split I assume.

The debate is not so much about the summed mono signal of the 750/1 compared to a stereo signal from a traditional full range amp. Its more about the frequency range that the 750/1 reaches as compared to a true full range amp. Actually, Ill take a mono tower setup when i can. True stereo is lost after so many feet, like by time you step on the swim platform. However, summed mono offers some advantages when you off axis like surfing. You get 100% content from both speakers. You can t get this from stereo. You get most of the material form the speaker closest to you, but little from the one furthest away, and less if its pointing toward the other side of the boat.

In that regards, I love the 750/1. However, I to wonder about the "warm" perception as compared to other amp setup used by ny. What were they, how were they tuned, source unit, was there an EQ, etc. Lots of unknowns and variables. I do disagree that it takes a 500+ Watt rms amp to make a rev-10 sound good.