2016 G25 stereo upgrade

[nyryan2001]

MLA you continue to argue a point no one is making.

No one said WS Amps pushing ~350-400x2 won't sound "good". WS amps are quality pricey gear, great QAQC and customer support no doubt.

The point I'm making, and I know you know is true.... Is side by side the 750/1 will sound better. Noticeably. And by a MILE at 12.6v with the boat off at 50% volume+. It's not till 500x2 that the WS amps will compete equally with the 750-1 at all volumes anywhere from 12.3v -14..4v.

I call complete BS on Tim's remark that 750-1s are the leading cause of blown Revs. Typical Wakeworld wake-bro website hype. So few folks run this setup. Leading cause of blown Revs is WS amps on these 2000--4000$ hand over your credit card installs. And folks not understanding their stereo burning coils.

so the folks on here can listen to the hype pushing vendors, or they can listen to folks with real skin in the game, personal money invested over 10yrs in their 7th? Stereo setup.

the reason I'm vocal on this is the WS hype is that they are THE premium choice. I'd agree on everything across the spectrum of their products.... Except for amps for Rev10s.... Especially when their offerings are about the same cost!

[David Analog]

It is true that an unregulated amplifier will lose around 25% of its 14.4 volt rated power with a lower 12.5 volt supply. A strictly regulated amplifier will deliver its rated power, without loss over a wide range of supply voltages. But achieving more power at lower supply voltages is secondary (more of a side note rather than the objective) to the sound quality benefits of a strictly regulated amplifier. This dates back to the Precision Power Art series, followed by the Xtant amplifiers, followed by the JL Audio Slash series, followed by the JL Audio HD series, all designed by Bruce Macmillan, lead JL Audio electronic engineer, and 'The Father of the Regulated Power Supply'. The purpose of the JL Audio RIP regulation is to provide lower distortion and in turn warmth under the adverse conditions of sagging voltage supplies, even when the voltage drop is momentary. "Warmth" in no way is meant to denote a difference or tilt in the frequency response or balance of bass to treble. It only describes the absence of harsh treble overtones, more graceful clipping, and steadfast fullness to the sound.
I have seen the JL Audio unpublished frequency response graph of the HD750/1 at both 4 and 2-ohm loads. It does roll off a bit before 20 kHz @ 4-ohms and a bit more at 2-ohms. But the roll-off is too high in frequency and too low in amplitude to be a factor in high frequency perception using an HLCD tower speaker. Listening tests via educated ears also provide the exact same conclusion.
If my experience and others who have used the JL Audio HD750/1 and really like it, is not enough to convince you, then just use another very good amplifier, like a Wetsounds SD series, which are great amplifiers by any standard. You're in very good hands either way.

[Evening Shade]

Again I'm a novice and I'm still curious how you wire a pair of speakers off of single output amp?

[David Analog]

Again I'm a novice and I'm still curious how you wire a pair of speakers off of single output amp?

Easy. In the case of the JL Audio HD750/1 monoblock, it has two output terminals just like a 2-channel stereo amplifier. So one speaker to each +/- terminal block. The two outputs are paralleled internally.
The HD750/1 also has stereo RCA inputs that are summed internally. Again, just like you would have with a 2-channel stereo amplifier.

[Evening Shade]

Easy. In the case of the JL Audio HD750/1 monoblock, it has two output terminals just like a 2-channel stereo amplifier. So one speaker to each +/- terminal block. The two outputs are paralleled internally.
The HD750/1 also has stereo RCA inputs that are summed internally. Again, just like you would have with a 2-channel stereo amplifier.

Oh gotcha. It actually has 2 output terminals not just one.

[MLA]

"MLA you continue to argue a point no one is making.

No one said WS Amps pushing ~350-400x2 won't sound "good". WS amps are quality pricey gear, great QAQC and customer support no doubt.

The point I'm making, and I know you know is true.... Is side by side the 750/1 will sound better. Noticeably. And by a MILE at 12.6v with the boat off at 50% volume+. It's not till 500x2 that the WS amps will compete equally with the 750-1 at all volumes anywhere from 12.3v -14..4v. "

Ny, what ever point you are making, I dont agree that you need to drive a Rev-10 with 500+ watts rms to rival the 750/1. As I stated, your past system can have some bearing on your current perception. No one here knows what that previous bar was setup. At one time, you yourself, questioned the setup and tune.

"I call complete BS on Tim's remark that 750-1s are the leading cause of blown Revs"

Based on what info, can you say its false?

Leading cause of blown Revs is WS amps on these 2000--4000$ hand over your credit card installs. And folks not understanding their stereo burning coils

Again, what statistical warranty info do you have to back this up? In 9 years, I have yet to have a blown tower or in-boat Wet Sounds. This includes many Rev-10 bridged on SD-6 with a potential of 600W rms. Thats my statistic.

[David Analog]

As a side note, a few years ago I played for Shawn Simpson, at the time the Wetsounds VP of sales, one pair of Rev10s with a JL Audio HD750/1 per EACH speaker. Yes, over 750 watts per speaker. I used a couple of tracks from a Sheffield Lab recording with incredible dynamic range. You can't hardly find recordings anymore with this type of dynamic range. A rim shot could have the attack like a crack of a whip. To a degree that it was actually startling if you didn't know what was coming. Ran these towers speakers like this for several years and never had a blown Wetsounds speaker. Never. We used all that available peak power on a daily basis but we didn't abuse the gear. In other words, the system was never driven into hard clipping.
The flipside is....the best job of system set-up and system tuning can still be nullified by a stubborn boat owner who insists on abusing his possessions.

[nyryan2001]

I fought the endless JL hype for years... There are many.... Perhaps even most where JL products are over priced, and any superior performance is negligble or washed out due to how they are used, compared to other products, not worth it for someone as performance discerning as they are budget minded.

but this specific scenario with a 750/1 pushing Revs is so over the top noticeable and apparent, it's like getting stung by a bee. Especially when all the other premium options like WS, Arc, Exile etc are within 100-150$ of the JL.

for the guys who don't understand what this is all about, your regular 400wx2 amps like Arc and Wetsounds only put out that 400x2 IF you can maintain 14.4v at the amp lugs. Throw a voltmeter next time you are hitting 50-75% volumes. Likely in the 13.0v range with the engine running. Likely around 12.0V with the engine off. Yes even if you use 1" thick 0 gauge + and - and quality terminal connections. Use the spec'd 4ga and it's even worse. Bottom line if your 400x2 amp is delivering 250-350w at best.

the power regulated 750/1 delivers EXACTLY 375x2 any any volt range from 11-15v regardless of the engine is running or not, whether you can maintain the pipe dream 14.4v at the amp lugs or not.

not sure if it's about power supplies or the other internals, but there is a significant difference.

Im not a Wetsounds hater, I love the Revs and about to yank the ZLD out and replace with a 420sq due to Exile quality fails. It's just that after all my setup versions (Arc 600.2, Fosgate t800/4, PPI, Treo, Polk) and all the boats in my local Crew (Exile, Roswell Wetsounds- every possible config) it sounds that much better.

This is a hype driven industry, so it not popular for someone to talk in specific terms about a product.

[David Analog]

Thank you guys so much for all of the discussion on this topic; it is really helping me a ton! It makes sense that the JL 750/1 would power the Revs better than anything else. JL amps offer true power at any ohm level, from my understanding. Back when I was a bit younger, I used a ton of JL amps in car audio, and they were rock solid, and just sounded better, even though watt should equal watt. Unfortunately, I agree with you nyryan, that just isn't the case in amp ratings.

In addition, it sounds like the PS8 is not a device I want in the boat. I don't want an extra volume knob. I think I'm going to go with 2 pairs of Rev 10s (plus I can get these white, which is a plus with a white tower ), 2 750/1s, another amp for the JL in boats, and a different sub with better venting.

It's not that the stock system isn't loud enough, or doesn't offer enough sound quality, I've just had upgraded systems in every boat I've had, and I'm used to that sound. I thought that possibly the optioned JL audio system would satisfy me, but I should have known better haha.

Pertaining to the extra volume control for a PS8, bit processor, or any other DSP/EQ....there's an important distinction to be made here. The only need for a second volume control for the DSP/EQ is if you are correcting for a source unit that has a response curve that changes with the volume. If the output of the source unit is linear, then a second volume control serves no purpose and wouldn't be an automatic companion to a DSP/EQ.

[sgresham]

Thanks David! Does that mean with the polk receiver, I would not need a separate volume control for the PS8?

[David Analog]

Thanks David! Does that mean with the polk receiver, I would not need a separate volume control for the PS8?

I can't answer that question. And I don't like leaving a question like this to speculation or ear. Ultimately the HU should be measured at various output levels to find out exactly what it is doing to the signal as the volume level increases/decreases. I do know that Earmark Marine in Lewisville has custom built their own equipment to do this exact measurement and performs this test procedure in advance on virtually every high end car they do big systems on. So it is a routine. Joe with Earmark is very advanced, really on a completely different level, in his understanding of DSP in that he was one of the first ever doing DSP in the early '90s.

[Neverenough]

Hey guys, I have a 2016 G25 with the upgraded stereo options from the dealer, but I am just about ready to upgrade that stereo just a bit, and I wanted a bit of advice. I am in Texas, and I have always used Tim from Scream Marine for my upgrades. I am thinking of changing out the tower speakers for 2 pairs of WetSounds Rev 10s, changing out the sub for a WetSounds XXX 12, and adding more amplification to the JL Audio in-boats. I believe Tim also talked about adding more venting for the sub, as there does not seem to be near enough.

One of the things I really don't want to do is take away a lot of the functionality of the Linc system as it pertains to the stereo, so it seems I can't get rid of the Polk tuner, but Tim suggested an Arc Audio PSA in order to boost the signal coming out of the tuner.

How do these upgrades sound to you guys? It seems there would be a huge difference in sound quality and sound levels to me, but I wanted to get some advice from some that have done this or something like it.

TIA!

Last boat all Wetsounds and was seriously loud with Rev410s new boat 2 pair JL 8.8s with 600.4 on each pair. Before you dumped a bunch of money I'd put some power to those 8.8s. I love my JL stuff and get far more complements on how clean it sounds than I did with Wetsounds. Albeit not as ear piercing loud but much cleaner and "warm" sounding. If you go Wetsounds I'll buy the JLs from you and so will many folks here. No offense to either Tim White lol!!!