G23 Ground for new Amps and WS420BT

[SCNautique210SAN]

Hey guys, another grounding and stereo feedback question..

Wondering who has had success with eliminating feedback, engine noise and alternator wine in your stereo when the boat is running. I just installed a serious new setup that's pulling a considerable amount of power and I'm getting some terrible high pitch feedback as soon as the engine is running. No feedback when it's not running. Here's how I wired the amps:

- Power for the amps runs to a distribution block where it's combined into a 0 gauge and ran to the output of the battery switch.
- Negative is also combined into a single 0 gauge via a distribution block and ran to the exact location that the OEM amps and wires were ran to - the front port side of the engine block.

Other notes:
- When the amps have no RCAs there's no feedback
- No matter where the signal comes from, once an RCA signal wire is added to one of the amplifiers you begin to hear feedback. Also doesn't matter which RCA cable is used. To me this eliminates the possibility that it's RCA interference. The RCAs also aren't ran near any power.
- Only happens when the engine is running
- I don't really hear alternator wine that follows the engine RPM, it's a consistent high pitch feedback
- I've tried to run the ground to battery 1, battery 2 and I've also tried to bridge the negatives manually of the two batteries. Still no improvement.


Anyone have any horror stories about feedback like this in a G23 and solutions? I'm wondering if I take the power and place it directly on the auxiliary battery terminal, and also run the negative directly to the auxiliary battery if this'll resolve it. Or, if there's a product that would help resolve the noise that I can purchase? And lastly, maybe it's not a ground issue at all?

Thanks in advance!

[Stevemo14]

There is a jumper in the WS420 that you can move that may eliminate the feedback. You have to open it up, and move it. Directions are in the manual. Also also the ground for the WS may be your cause.

Wet-Sounds-WS-420BT-Manual.pdf

[99bison]

Not a Nautique but once had Head Unit that had an internal grounding problem that only was noticeable when adding a controller between amp and HU. Sounded similar to your description. Ended up adding a ground between HU grounding screw and Rca cable... soldered it on and worked great. Later found a rca cable with an actual ground wire, but never used it.

[SCNautique210SAN]

Stevemo14 Thanks. So the feedback is identical with and without the WS-420BT which makes me think that it's further back like a ground issue for the amps themselves. I isolated the amps by removing all of the RCA inputs form the WS-420 and used the OEM head unit as the source instead with a separate RCA. Same issue. Although, I did already try to use the ground isolation jumper on the WS-420BT because my initial thought was that it was the infamous EQ feedback that everyone gets!

[SCNautique210SAN]

Not a Nautique but once had Head Unit that had an internal grounding problem that only was noticeable when adding a controller between amp and HU. Sounded similar to your description. Ended up adding a ground between HU grounding screw and Rca cable... soldered it on and worked great. Later found a rca cable with an actual ground wire, but never used it.

I'm trying to visualize this. You grounded your RCAs?

[SCNautique210SAN]

MLA in my other thread from a few weeks back where we were discussing where to run the power for this setup and whether or not to purchase an ACR, we talked about running the power from the switch output itself instead of the power. This topic is related to the ground for the amplifiers but I'm wondering if that's not a clean source of power for the amps and is what is causing the feedback that I'm hearing when the engine is on (not alternator wine but consistent feedback)? Thinking about it a little more, it's where everything is pulled from on the boat with no isolation so it kind of makes sense. Also, the input wire to the switch is 4 gauge which might be a little too small for the long run that it takes to power these new amps and the significant amount of power they pull.

I'm thinking I'm going to run both the power and the ground from all sources stereo related directly to the AUX battery instead of through the switch and to the engine block.

[99bison]

I'm trying to visualize this. You grounded your RCAs?

Yea found it online somewhere.. sounded weird but I was out of ideas so tried it. If I remember right I soldered a wire right onto the shield - on the outside of the rca connector that wasn’t wrapped in plastic/etc. And just one wire/connector believe.

Something about floating ground or something was the discussion. I suspect the person before me caused the issue with the HU by not disconnecting power while messing with rcas and amps. I didn’t really want to replace the HU being factory installed etc.

[MLA]

To start, wiring the amp's main B+ through the main battery switch is not a cause of noise. Too small of a supply cable to the switch, would be a safety issue, not a noise issue. I would not suggest terminating amp grounds to the block. I prefer the battery direct.

When chasing unwanted noise, everyone puts all the focus on the ground, and overlook the B+. 9 out 10 times, its a voltage difference between audio components.

[SCNautique210SAN]

MLA thanks, I think you're 100% right. My thought with changing the power source for all components in the stereo from the switch to the Aux battery was it was the easiest way to eliminate any inconsistency in voltage between everything. One thing I didn't try though was connecting the WS-420 or the head unit constant power wire directly to the switch output where the amps pick up power. That would ensure voltage consistency between the source and the amps. So I'll try that as well to see if that would resolve anything.

[SCNautique210SAN]

Yea found it online somewhere.. sounded weird but I was out of ideas so tried it. If I remember right I soldered a wire right onto the shield - on the outside of the rca connector that wasn’t wrapped in plastic/etc. And just one wire/connector believe.

Something about floating ground or something was the discussion. I suspect the person before me caused the issue with the HU by not disconnecting power while messing with rcas and amps. I didn’t really want to replace the HU being factory installed etc.

I think you're referring to a ground loop issue. Good, easy way to test that so I'll add it to the list of troubleshooting. However I did use the ground isolation jumper that comes built into the WS-420BT and saw no change which makes me think it's not a ground loop issue but you never know

[Stevemo14]

I bought these for my install.

https://www.amazon.com/InstallGear-G...s%2C192&sr=8-9

As stated above, it might be that running the B+ directly off the switch, and the ground to the block may be your issue. I have both connected to the terminals above, running to battery 2. I know this is in a 05-210, but not all that different. I have 0 gauge B+ / Ground running to a distribution block, then running 4 gauge to my amps. I am also running a WS420, and have 0 engine noise or hum.

[SCNautique210SAN]

I bought these for my install.

https://www.amazon.com/InstallGear-G...s%2C192&sr=8-9

As stated above, it might be that running the B+ directly off the switch, and the ground to the block may be your issue. I have both connected to the terminals above, running to battery 2. I know this is in a 05-210, but not all that different. I have 0 gauge B+ / Ground running to a distribution block, then running 4 gauge to my amps. I am also running a WS420, and have 0 engine noise or hum.

Yea, I'm considering wiring both direct to the battery if I can't get it to work with the current configuration. That is exactly how I wired my 04-210 with a very similar system and I had 0 issues with feedback and engine noise.

[MLA]

The ground isolator in the 420 is not a fix for ground loop caused by incorrect wiring. The ground loop isolators also do not fix the issue. Even if they remove the noise, the root cause is still there.

If there is a voltage drop through the main switch, engine noise in the audio, is the least of your problems. Thats why I say its not a cause for noise.

[SCNautique210SAN]

The ground isolator in the 420 is not a fix for ground loop caused by incorrect wiring. The ground loop isolators also do not fix the issue. Even if they remove the noise, the root cause is still there.

If there is a voltage drop through the main switch, engine noise in the audio, is the least of your problems. Thats why I say its not a cause for noise.

Makes sense. Voltage as always been fine per the gauges. But I see what you're saying. Running to the battery to resolve the issue is a patch, not a fix to the underlying issue (if there is a voltage drop within the main switch).

And agree as well with ground loop isolators. Should be a last resort if you can't sort wiring out but they're good for troubleshooting.

[99bison]

I think you're referring to a ground loop issue. Good, easy way to test that so I'll add it to the list of troubleshooting. However I did use the ground isolation jumper that comes built into the WS-420BT and saw no change which makes me think it's not a ground loop issue but you never know

Fwiw tried a couple Ground loop isolators and they didn’t matter for me when I tried it either.