Paragon & G23 Trailer Discussion

[Wayward]

greggmck - you are right, it’s like 3” from the stop. The ramp is so steep at Adirondack Marine that you can’t pull it all the way up. You gotta draw it in the rest of the way at the top of the hill. That doesn’t change the fact that the axles are placed at least a foot ahead of where they were on your tandem.....

digging myself a hole?
1- I’m not the one complaining about sway characteristics on a tandem, you are. My tandems all towed fine. That was the point of my original post.
2- in my experience, my triple axle G23 trailer squatted the raptor every bit as much if I had the ball height correct for the trailer. If I had the ball lower than it should be, yes it would reduce the weight because of resting more weight on the front axle..... however, that warmed my front axle tires beyond my comfort level.
3- weigh safe hitches are kinda accurate.
4- Regardless of all of this, I am going to take the word of an engineer at boatmate, and the owner of a boat trailer manufacturing company, over some keyboard warrior on PN.
5- Still waiting for a vid of you lifting the 100lb tongue on your triple axle trailer......

6- Literally, just google it please. There is a zillion articles on this topic, and EVERY SINGLE one of them points out the fact that you should have 10% tongue weight regardless of the trailer being a single, tandem, triple, quad axle, etc....

[Wayward]

I don't think anyone mentioned the tires. It is pretty hard to find a tire of the size used on these trailers that has more than a 2200 pound capacity. Putting 10K on 4 tires is going to be overloaded on the tires, in most instances.

Please show me the tires on a 15K boat on a tandem trailer. Wouldn't they have to be 35 inch semi truck tires to manage that sort of weight?

That’s always the weak spot on these trailers. What is up with that? They always put tires on that are running the max of their capacity right out of the gate. It’s no secret that trailer tires shredding is the #1 most common issue with these trailers. So much that you always want to have a lug wrench with you for long trips.

although, I can say that I haven’t had tire issues in quite a few years. They are getting better (at least on boatmate trailers)

[RDT-G23]

Back to topic... The Paragon is as heavy as one will find with these types of boats, thus I ordered a triple axle Boatmate with brakes on all axles and a 2 5/16” coupler; I will tow with an F250. I’m in good shape.

[greggmck]

greggmck - you are right, it’s like 3” from the stop. The ramp is so steep at Adirondack Marine that you can’t pull it all the way up. You gotta draw it in the rest of the way at the top of the hill. That doesn’t change the fact that the axles are placed at least a foot ahead of where they were on your tandem.....

digging myself a hole?
1- I’m not the one complaining about sway characteristics on a tandem, you are. My tandems all towed fine. That was the point of my original post.
2- in my experience, my triple axle G23 trailer squatted the raptor every bit as much if I had the ball height correct for the trailer. If I had the ball lower than it should be, yes it would reduce the weight because of resting more weight on the front axle..... however, that warmed my front axle tires beyond my comfort level.
3- weigh safe hitches are kinda accurate.
4- Regardless of all of this, I am going to take the word of an engineer at boatmate, and the owner of a boat trailer manufacturing company, over some keyboard warrior on PN.
5- Still waiting for a vid of you lifting the 100lb tongue on your triple axle trailer......

1) I never complained about sway. I never experienced it. We were discussing tongue weight.
Your words. "tongue weight would be 8-10% Regardless of how many axles." This is clearly NOT the case. FACT: Adding an additional forward axle reduces tongue weight because that forward axle supports weight that would otherwise be on the tongue.

2) Please show side by side pictures of the same squat with triple and tandem axles on a Raptor. I have posted these photos and this was NOT my experience. How could it be? With a properly loaded trailer (level) the front most axle on a triple axle trailer will carry some weight that would otherwise be on the tongue of a tandem. See #1. Less tongue weight, less squat.

3) As an engineer I am very focused on data and accuracy. I placed two 50 lb lead weight bags on my weight safe hitch to calibrate it and it increased 100 lbs. It may not be highly accurate but it is clearly close enough.

4). That is your choice. But this keyboard warrior is an engineer that designed a Super Computer for NASA. Clearly trailer weight dynamics are beyond my skill level and should be deferred to someone answering the phone at Boatmate.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/23/ibm_idataplex/
https://www.eweek.com/networking/nas...-supercomputer

5) As I mentioned I no longer own any trailer. Which is why of course you are asking for this video. If I did I would be glad to post this video so that you could shift the conversation to something else...

This is becoming a Monty Python buy an Argument... https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=570647616436432

[Wayward]

greggmck - Man.....you gotta just google it or something. Literally a thousand articles on this. Your ideal tongue weight on a boat trailer should be 8-10% regardless of how many axles. Your facts are are not facts at all, and you need to educate yourself. Sorry.....

did you miss the part where I said I literally believed the exact same thing as you, for the exact same reasons, for the exact same truck??!? And then heard from somebody who is actually an expert that my thinking was wrong?!? And then the fact that I again confirmed it with someone else who knows the facts that you don’t??

Im moving on from this.......

[scottb7]

Can i just say....i don't know...i missed out on a bunch of posts...i don't know how....and now that i got a good bourbon buzz going...this has been highly entertaining. thanks much!

[Kenv]

Is it just me or am I the only one that has never seen tire placement on a tandem like the pic of the red G23?? That looks more like direct drive engine tire placement..not vdrive. Compare it to other pics on the web. I think those axles are a bit too far forward. ☹️

[Bevostein]

Good grief a post about Nautique new kick *** boat has turned into weeny comparing contest about who knows more about trailers. Can you guys take breath and give it a rest?

[MLars]

Good grief a post about Nautique new kick *** boat has turned into weeny comparing contest about who knows more about trailers. Can you guys take breath and give it a rest?

Agreed, one picture of the Paragon on a dual axle trailer and it turns into a multiple page debate about dual vs triple axles, this forum is so entertaining

[hal2814]

Agreed, one picture of the Paragon on a dual axle trailer and it turns into a multiple page debate about dual vs triple axles, this forum is so entertaining

My favorite part was learning that NASA puts supercomputers on boat trailers.

[kodiak]

[Kenv]

Hey Bevo.....get off my lawn....and take your dam trailer talk with you....LOL

[sixcampbells]

The weight of the Paragon (dry) is 7,400 pounds. Add in fuel and gear, plus the weight of the trailer itself (likely close to 2,000 pounds), and you're certainly over 10,000 pounds. The limiting factor is likely the axle capacity (see this thread), so I think using a dual-axle trailer for a Paragon (unless it is empty) may not be as safe as using a triple.

I agree 100% with what Jeff is saying here. Last year I bought a new tow vehicle to tow my 2018 G23 with trips, I use WDH and have electric over hydraulic brakes. It tows like a dream and I know I am legal and safe. At this point my 2019 Ford Expedition Max could not tow the Paragon. I guess that's one way to be "less tempted" to drop that amount of cash on one. Still love my 2018! - at least I keep telling myself that as I watch videos and read comments about the Paragon......sweet!!!

[blueroom]

Howdy

As I have previously shared in other topics, the Boatmate tandem axle with XL optioned axles is lighter and rated higher than the triple axle trailer. This is only available with 15’s, which is why you see what on the surface appears to be cheaper trailer under some G23’s. In fact, it is heavier duty. It’s not the number of axles, but the combined weight rating of the axles used and weight of the trailer. We have this trailer and it is stouter, and easier to U at the ramp, than a triple. Wouldn’t’ trade it, even if the triple with 18’s looks cooler.

https://boatmatetrailers.com/models_nautique.php

[NautiqueJeff]

That's very interesting. I don't remember seeing that before. Thanks for posting.